The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written... | Page 4 | TigerDroppings.com

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dr smartass phd
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:

We can debate all we ant about that necessity in modern times.


There is not much gray area in "Shall Not be Infringed"






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Interception
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:

There is not much gray area in "Shall Not be Infringed"


Are there any people in society that shouldn't own a gun?



This post was edited on 4/1 at 1:28 am


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FT
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:


Are there any people in society that shouldn't own a gun?
Yes. And there are "guns" that people shouldn't own.






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RogerTheShrubber
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:


There is not much gray area in "Shall Not be Infringed"



Totally agree. My point was more related to citizen militia's and the need for citizens to be armed for that purpose. The right to bear arms isn't limited to militias.

The right to bear arms is settled and anyone disagreeing is on the wrong side of US history and should revisit a couple of supreme court cases dealing with the subject. LINK

(finding my stored liberal catch phrases)






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RogerTheShrubber
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


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And there are "guns" that people shouldn't own.



Like what?






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FT
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


Well, first let's remember that the amendment doesn't say "guns", it says "arms". So... Nuclear or chemical weapons, missiles, rocket propelled grenades, machine guns, etc.

Others can be debated, but those sorts of things can be banned, even though the right to bear them "shall not be infringed".






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dr smartass phd
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


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Are there any people in society that shouldn't own a gun?


If I'm going to stay true my Constitutional beliefs, I have to say no






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Interception
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


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If I'm going to stay true my Constitutional beliefs, I have to say no


Okay, but you know that's not practical.

How about when and where a person can carry a gun? Should there be any restrictions?






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Newbomb Turk
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:

The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


Unlike that abortion amendment which is as clear as day!

And that Constitutional RIGHT to gay marriage -- I mean, what could be clearer????



This post was edited on 4/1 at 1:44 am


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dr smartass phd
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


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How about when and where a person can carry a gun? Should there be any restrictions?


Personally, I think every state should follow the Arizona open carry, which it has been for a long time. The only exceptions there are school grounds and government buildings. If someone had the time and money, they could probably challenge it with the "shall not be infringed"



This post was edited on 4/1 at 2:08 am


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Five0
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


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If I'm going to stay true my Constitutional beliefs, I have to say no


Without due process, no. With well, now you know why liberals like court decisions over elections.






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SoulGlo
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


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Regulated doesn't mean regulation in today's context






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llfshoals
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:

Sorry, are you suggesting that I personally disagree with the second? Because as it is, I can't make out what it means. In the context of the rest of the constitution, it seems blindingly obvious that ownership of guns is a privilege, not a right, unless as part of a militia. Still, that's not how it's ever been interpreted.

This is exactly my point. I own a gun (several, actually). I have no problem with private gun ownership. The only subject of this thread is whether or not the amendment itself makes clear what it intends to do. I think it sort of does, but constitutional scholars disagree with the way I am forced, given my understanding of English, to understand it


I think you're either intentionally arguing against it trying to make the point that arguing against the 2nd amendment is stupid.

Or you're really a moron that can't understand something called historical context. The so-called constitutional scholars I've seen attempt (badly) to speak on the subject are most certainly morons, but they're morons with an agenda, which makes trying to change the constitution without amending it OK in their book.






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ChineseBandit58
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


True - the writers of the constitution failed to predict the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the 21st century.

It's funny to me that for almost 200 years there was absolutely no confusion about the intent of the 2nd amendment. Even the writers themselves - some of the most brilliant and moral men to ever live - saw nothing wrong with the wording in their lifetimes.

Only with the advent of 'anything goes' moral bankruptcy of 'progressive' America has it been challenged = and this by the same people who can with feigned clarity see that the constitution ABSOLUTELY has an 'umbra from the penumbra' protecting the abortion of fetuses at any time for any reason, even after they are born alive.

Yet, the wording of the 2nd amendment confuses them to no end.

The constitution was written for men of good will and common sense - characteristics that are in short supply in our time.






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EST
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


It seems pretty clear to me.





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FT
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


It's the only amendment that spells out a reason for its existence; that reason is a well regulated militia with the aim of protecting the populace.

I think, interpreting the constitution in the most logical way I can find given the context and other writings, that they meant for there to always be a militia, and that you couldn't very well have one without being armed.

Still, the wording allows for the types of arguments we often see. I think that eventually that interpretation may take hold. It would have been much easier and more logical to write the amendment without the beginning bit. "The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." Without the modifier, it's an absolute. With the modifier, there's room for arguments.

Therefore, it's poorly written.






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ChineseBandit58
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


quote:

Therefore, it's poorly written.

I agree - within the context of the current time, it is poorly written.

Within the context of its intent, there is not a scintilla of confusion - as evidenced by the customs of the time when it was written, the actions of the people and the inactions of the courts concerning its interpretation and the 2 centuries of common acceptance.

I wish it had been better written as well. But that would not stop the 21st century assault on common sense that is taking place.

No where in the constitution do you find the words 'separation of church and state' yet the current interpretation of the constitution is that it was written precisely to be hostile to religion - at least Christianity in all its forms.







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CITWTT
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


Did you ever notice that it was written by a bunch of really smart guys that had just fought a long nasty war?





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FT
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


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Did you ever notice that it was written by a bunch of really smart guys that had just fought a long nasty war?
Nope. Never occurred to me.






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Porky
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re: The Second Amendment Really Is Poorly Written...


There's no doubt in my mind that if there was a question regarding it's meaning, it would have been rewritten within the first 200 years. It's clear to those who appreciate what it stands for.

quote:

being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

What's the problem? Maybe they should have said, "don't be stupid and try to screw around with our words or spin the meaning...yes, that means the idiots in the 21st century who want more useless laws in an attempt to diminish the liberties of people abiding by existing laws, and the mentally impaired politicians who are confused about what they have sworn to defend and protect".



This post was edited on 4/1 at 6:40 am


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