" I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me" | Page 13 | TigerDroppings.com

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DawgfaninCa
Georgia Fan
San Francisco, California
Member since Sep 2012
4068 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:


So, in a nutshell. You are FOR same sex couples being allowed to live together etc. but you are against them taking advantage of the same government benefits that are afforded traditional marriage, despite the fact that in a civil union, religion is not called upon to sanctify it?


My opposition to same sex marriage and same sex civil unions has nothing to do with religious beliefs. Some of my opposition to same sex marriage and same sex civil unions has nothing to do with homosexuality.


quote:

edit: For the record, i'm not suggesting the term "Marriage" not exist, i'm suggesting that Marriage exists for the religous and can be defined as it suits their own beleif (man/woman only). Whereas we can define a Civil Union as something totally seperate from Marriage, but that still warrants the same benefits that is afforded to marriage from the government.


As I pointed out in other threads about same sex marriage, some non religious heterosexual couples still want to get "married" not "civil unioned" but they don't want to get "married" in a church or in a religious ceremony.

However, even if you don't consider the desire of those non religious heterosexual couples to be "married" in a nonreligious setting and made "marriage" available for the religious who believe "marriage" should be only for a man and woman, I would still be opposed to same sex civil unions for the reason I stated previously.

Same sex civil unions still allows two unmarried women to have babies by two different men or even the same man then dump the men or man, make them or him pay child support and then the two women enter into a same sex civil union which gives them all of the benefits and privileges associated with marriage while never even having to try to have a stable family unit with the fathers or father for the benefit of the children.

Don't tell me it won't happen. It will be an unintended consequence of legalizing same sex marriage or same sex civil union.





This post was edited on 3/18 at 5:34 pm


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SidewalkDawg
Georgia Fan
North Georgia
Member since Nov 2012
1012 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:

Same sex civil unions still allows two unmarried women to have babies by two different men or even the same man then dump the men or man, make them or him pay child support and then the two women enter into a same sex civil union which gives them all of the benefits and privileges associated with marriage while never even having to try to have a stable family unit with the fathers or father for the benefit of the children.


I'm sorry to say, but this happens already in straight relationships... What's to stop a woman from having multiple kids out of wedlock, ripping the poor men off, and then remarrying a man to take advantage of the benefits of marriage? This isn't a valid point.

The fact is that by not allowing two people the advantages of marriage/union that are granted by our government you effectively make them second class citizens akin to blacks and women in our early history.



This post was edited on 3/19 at 7:48 am


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DawgfaninCa
Georgia Fan
San Francisco, California
Member since Sep 2012
4068 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:


I'm sorry to say, but this happens already in straight relationships... What's to stop a woman from having multiple kids out of wedlock, ripping the poor men off, and then remarrying a man to take advantage of the benefits of marriage? This isn't a valid point.


Apples and oranges.

In your example the woman is at least attempting to have a relationship with a man. Even if the man isn't the father a positive male role model may be present in the children's lives.

quote:

The fact is that by not allowing two people the advantages of marriage/union that are granted by our government you effectively make them second class citizens akin to blacks and women in our early history.


Sophistic nonsense.

The fact is two homosexuals of the same sex have always been able to live together and when they told everyone they were "roommates' everyone knew what was going on.

In the past, two heterosexuals of the opposite sex couldn't even live together if they weren't married.

Who's the second case citizens in those two scenarios?








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SidewalkDawg
Georgia Fan
North Georgia
Member since Nov 2012
1012 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:

In your example the woman is at least attempting to have a relationship with a man. Even if the man isn't the father a positive male role model may be present in the children's lives.


So merely attempting to have a relationship with a man = Positive effect on Children? Nevermind that you are assuming the new male role model is entirely a positive force, god forbit he doesn't beat or molest the child.

Can you at least admit that a Postive woman/woman is better than a Negative Man/Woman? Or are you totally blinded by your bigotry?

quote:

The fact is two homosexuals of the same sex have always been able to live together and when they told everyone they were "roommates' everyone knew what was going on. In the past, two heterosexuals of the opposite sex couldn't even live together if they weren't married. Who's the second case citizens in those two scenarios?


Can you really not see the difference? The government did not intervene to prevent hetero couples from cohabitating. That was social pressure. It also goes without saying that the government did not subsidize the same sex couple while they cohabitated, while denying the same subsidies to the straight couple.

Now, who's comparing apples and oranges?






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tigersaint26
LSU Fan
In front of my computer
Member since Sep 2005
1209 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


This whole thread seems to come down to the thread's title. Throughout history being gay was frowned upon. Today it is all about tolerance. peopel don't want to have to fight the battles with other people so they just say, "whatever, it doesn't affect me."

Most people lack backbones today to stand up for what they believe in so the vocal people that have an opinion can basically say whatever they want and the tolerant sheep just get in line behind them. When you stand up to the vocal people with a different opinion, the sheep just blast back at you about how you should be more tolerant because if it isn't hurting you then why should you care.

Too many people today just don't care so they just get in line with a majority so they do have to listen to being griped at.






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SidewalkDawg
Georgia Fan
North Georgia
Member since Nov 2012
1012 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:

"whatever, it doesn't affect me."


This was the idea the founders had when they drafted our government.

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others...It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. "

- Thomas Jefferson

Please explain to me how a gay couple marrying affects you negatively anymore than a straight couple marrying would?






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tigersaint26
LSU Fan
In front of my computer
Member since Sep 2005
1209 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


I'm just saying to leave things as they are. The government should pass laws for it. They can live together if they want but why should the government step in and do anything? Should a brother and sister to allowed to wed next? How about 2 hetero friends that just want the tax breaks?





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SidewalkDawg
Georgia Fan
North Georgia
Member since Nov 2012
1012 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:

I'm just saying to leave things as they are. The government should pass laws for it. They can live together if they want but why should the government step in and do anything? Should a brother and sister to allowed to wed next? How about 2 hetero friends that just want the tax breaks?


The sensible thing would be to get government out of marriage, and leave it all to religion. However, we all know that isn't going to happen. That leaves the next sensible thing, treat each other equally.

And please, no one is advocating for Brother/Sister marriage or Bestiality, so leave that hypothetical slippery slope nonsense out of it.






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Blue Velvet
Colorado State Fan
Apple butter toast is nice
Member since Nov 2009
17224 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:

Should a brother and sister to allowed to wed next?
Yes. I'm sorry it bothers you.
quote:

How about 2 hetero friends that just want the tax breaks?
Sounds like we have a tax breaks problem. Everyone complains about people miking, or taking advantage of the system. The problem is that we have a system that benefits various groups of people over others and is easy to be milked or taken advantage of. What's stopping 2 hetero friends (man & woman) that just want the tax beaks from marrying now?



This post was edited on 3/19 at 1:07 pm


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DawgfaninCa
Georgia Fan
San Francisco, California
Member since Sep 2012
4068 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:

In your example the woman is at least attempting to have a relationship with a man. Even if the man isn't the father a positive male role model may be present in the children's lives.


quote:


So merely attempting to have a relationship with a man = Positive effect on Children? Nevermind that you are assuming the new male role model is entirely a positive force, god forbit he doesn't beat or molest the child.


Apparently you do not understand why I used the word, "may" in my sentence.

Besides, in the example I gave, the women I was talking about are women who don't want to relate to men in any manner. You must be aware of the type of women I am talking about.

quote:

Can you at least admit that a Postive woman/woman is better than a Negative Man/Woman? Or are you totally blinded by your bigotry?


Can you at least admit that a positive or negative woman/woman relationship is not better than a positive man/woman relationship when children are involved?

quote:

Can you really not see the difference? The government did not intervene to prevent hetero couples from cohabitating. That was social pressure.


The reality is that a heterosexual couple couldn't cohabitate without getting married first while two homosexuals of the same sex could cohabitate without having to get married first.

At least two homosexuals of the same sex could cohabitate without being forced to get married first.

quote:

It also goes without saying that the government did not subsidize the same sex couple while they cohabitated, while denying the same subsidies to the straight couple.


An unmarried heterosexual couple couldn't cohabitate and didn't get the benefits and privileges associated with marriage.

Yeah, it was their choice not to get married but at least they didn't get married just to get the benefits and privileges associated with marriage like homosexuals are trying to do.

quote:

Now, who's comparing apples and oranges?


You are when you compare a homosexual relationship with a heterosexual relationship and say they are equal.







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DawgfaninCa
Georgia Fan
San Francisco, California
Member since Sep 2012
4068 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:


And please, no one is advocating for Brother/Sister marriage or Bestiality, so leave that hypothetical slippery slope nonsense out of it.


It isn't a slippery slope hypothetical.

It will be an unintended consequence reality just like an unwed mother will be able to marry her adult daughter just because they "love" each other.







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DawgfaninCa
Georgia Fan
San Francisco, California
Member since Sep 2012
4068 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:

Should a brother and sister to allowed to wed next?


quote:

Yes. I'm sorry it bothers you.


It doesn't bother you?

quote:

What's stopping 2 hetero friends (man & woman) that just want the tax beaks from marrying now?


Most heterosexual men won't marry a woman they don't "love" just to get tax breaks because then they won't be able to marry the woman they fall in "love" with when they meet her.

They will have to get a divorce first and that's after they have to explain why they are married in the first place.

Nope, for heterosexual men, having to do all that ain't worth the tax breaks.





This post was edited on 3/19 at 2:24 pm


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SidewalkDawg
Georgia Fan
North Georgia
Member since Nov 2012
1012 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:

Apparently you do not understand why I used the word, "may" in my sentence. Besides, in the example I gave, the women I was talking about are women who don't want to relate to men in any manner. You must be aware of the type of women I am talking about.


I understand "may" just fine, it's your implications I have an issue with.

quote:

Can you at least admit that a positive or negative woman/woman relationship is not better than a positive man/woman relationship when children are involved?


I will admit that a same-sex couple raising children is not better or worse than a traditional couple raising children. Fortunately for me, Science supports my viewpoint.

LINK

quote:

The reality is that a heterosexual couple couldn't cohabitate without getting married first while two homosexuals of the same sex could cohabitate without having to get married first.


You are still failing to see the difference here. Why couldn't the hetero couple cohabitate without getting married first? Did the government tell them they couldn't?

quote:

Yeah, it was their choice not to get married but at least they didn't get married just to get the benefits and privileges associated with marriage like homosexuals are trying to do.


Ah ok, so they do have a choice to not get married... Also, what makes you think homosexuals are only getting married for the benefits? Sure they should be allowed to get those benefits, such as end of life decisions, etc. but let's be honest, the great majority of same-sex couples want to be married for the same reason straight people do, it's a commitment to the person you love.






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SidewalkDawg
Georgia Fan
North Georgia
Member since Nov 2012
1012 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:

It isn't a slippery slope hypothetical. It will be an unintended consequence reality just like an unwed mother will be able to marry her adult daughter just because they "love" each other.


The great thing about slippery slopes is that they can work both ways... I say if we are restricting gay marriage today, What's next? I guess we should also restrict people with AID's and other STD's from getting married, wouldn't want them breeding. Oh also, the mentally challenged, can't have them marrying either.

See how easy this is? One only needs to take these "slippery slope" arguments to their logical and absurd conclusions to see them for what they are.






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Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
15221 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:

The great thing about slippery slopes is that they can work both ways



Really? I never saw a person slide up a slippery slope!



This post was edited on 3/19 at 3:21 pm


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SidewalkDawg
Georgia Fan
North Georgia
Member since Nov 2012
1012 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:

Really? I never saw a person slide up a slippery slope!










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DawgfaninCa
Georgia Fan
San Francisco, California
Member since Sep 2012
4068 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:

See how easy this is? One only needs to take these "slippery slope" arguments to their logical and absurd conclusions to see them for what they are.



How about responding to an unintended consequence argument which is not a slippery slope argument.







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kingbob
LSU Fan
St. Amant, LA
Member since Nov 2010
19569 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


because it goes against freedom. Why do you hate freedom? The only purpose of a state is to protect our natural rights. The state makes and enforces laws so that our rights may be protected from infringement. As long as no one's rights are being infringed by an individual's actions, then why should it be illegal? Sure, the court of public opinion or common sense can judge it as wrong, disgusting, or stupid, but if something is so bad that everyone knows it's bad and it doesn't harm anyone but the person who does it, then why is a law necessary? If the action affects no one but the perpetrating party then the only rational reason for a law against it is to stop you from doing it because YOU SECRETLY WANT TO.

Ron Paul illustrated this point flawlessly in the debates. He asked everyone to raise their hands if they thought heroin should be illegal and the vast majority raised their hands. He asked how many people would try heroin if it was legal and no one raised their hands. If no one would do it if it was legal, than why is it "illegal"?






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DawgfaninCa
Georgia Fan
San Francisco, California
Member since Sep 2012
4068 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:


I understand "may" just fine, it's your implications I have an issue with.



What implications are you implying?

quote:

I will admit that a same-sex couple raising children is not better or worse than a traditional couple raising children. Fortunately for me, Science supports my viewpoint.


Nonsense. A positive biological father/mother relationship is always better for the children than a positive or negative woman/woman or man/man relationship.

Are you one of this people who think children should be taken anyway from a loving but poor mother and father and given to rich lesbians or homosexual men because the children's life will be "better"?

quote:

You are still failing to see the difference here. Why couldn't the hetero couple cohabitate without getting married first? Did the government tell them they couldn't?


You still fail to see that in the past at least two homosexuals of the same sex could choose to cohabitate without having to get married first whereas a heterosexual couple couldn't.

quote:

Ah ok, so they do have a choice to not get married...


Try not to split infinitives. It makes you look uneducated.

quote:

Also, what makes you think homosexuals are only getting married for the benefits? Sure they should be allowed to get those benefits, such as end of life decisions, etc. but let's be honest, the great majority of same-sex couples want to be married for the same reason straight people do, it's a commitment to the person you love.


BS.

They are doing it to get the benefits and privileges associated with marriage while at the same time forcing society to accept a homosexual relationship as being a normal and equal alternative to a heterosexual relationship.

After all, two homosexuals of the same sex who "love" each other can already live together without having to be married.







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DawgfaninCa
Georgia Fan
San Francisco, California
Member since Sep 2012
4068 posts

re: " I don't care what anyone does as long as it doesn't affect me"


quote:

The only purpose of a state is to protect our natural rights.


I don't know what country you live in but it can't be the USA because the USA's Declaration of Independence declares the individual's unalienable rights are endowed to them by their creator. It says nothing about the individual having "natural" rights.

It seems to me if you don't believe in a creator then you don't believe you have unalienable rights endowed upon you by your creator.

That means you believe the only rights you have are endowed upon you by man and any right endowed upon you by man can be taken away from you by man.







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