What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

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Moustache
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


Also, getting rid of the child tax credit will help put a lot of money towards this too.

A good portion of money spent on a child is healthcare.






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Srbtiger06
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

True. But I bet those people who ever have a true medical problem that forces them to bankruptcy will change their tune and will gladly pay more taxes to ensure their healthcare.


I would agree, but I would also those who go through life without ever having any issues won't gladly pay more.






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Moustache
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

ND open up more avenues of abuse.


You can say that about ANYTHING. To go in with that attitude, then we would not have EVER progressed as a society.

I know I'm coming off as way left here, but there are some things that I feel people on the right shut out just because it toes the party line.

Health care is obviously one for me. Another is people who scoff at recylcing, going green , etc. What's bad about trying to be a better human being and do better for the environment? Since when is that a bad thing? Now, I disagree setting ridiculous regulations for businesses, but there does need to be some because the 1890-1940s era definitely showed that companies won't hesitate to abuse shite.






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HailHailtoMichigan!
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


Well over half of all healthcare expenses in this country are paid by government. We are extremely government dependent when it comes to healthcare, and it has absolutely failed since the 60's.

It is absolutely criminal that you and PRK are going to sit back and tell me that America has free market healthcare. It doesn't, and hasn't since before world war 2.

There is no reason to believe something as inefficient as the united states government can efficiently deliver care to all Americans.






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Moustache
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

ut I would also those who go through life without ever having any issues won't gladly pay more.



Everybody has an issue at some point. I'd bet if you polled this board, over 75% of people will have had some issue, be it irregular heartbeat, pneumonia, appendix, gallbladder, kidney stones, bad infection, broken bones, etc. that required quality healthcare.






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HailHailtoMichigan!
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

o go in with that attitude, then we would not have EVER progressed as a society.

Progress is measured by redistribution programs? wow, just wow.

I am disappoint.






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Moustache
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

It is absolutely criminal that you and PRK are going to sit back and tell me that America has free market healthcare


I never said that.

quote:

There is no reason to believe something as inefficient as the united states government can efficiently deliver care to all Americans.


You think insurance companies efficiently deliver this?






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Srbtiger06
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

You think insurance companies efficiently deliver this?


You think the government can?






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HailHailtoMichigan!
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

You think insurance companies efficiently deliver this?
Not in the current set up. Insurance should not be tied to employment.

That, of course, was the product of frickhead laws in WW2 that prevented employers from raising wages.






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Moustache
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

Progress is measured by redistribution programs? wow, just wow.

I am disappoint.



I'm not wanting to redistribute. I think healthcare should be viewed more as a right to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I'm wanting to stop wasting money as a fricking country and stop this barbaric mentality and put it towards a good use.

Ensuring good healthcare for our citizens instead of spending government money on welfare, oil subsidies, farm subsidies, education subsidies, etc. is a good thing and is a sign of progress.


Do you have millions of dollars? If you don't, then at some point in your life, I'd bet you're going to have a major medical issue that bankrupts you or financially sets you back a little.

Lady I work with has insurance and pays out the arse for it. Her husband was diagnosed with Leukemia. They had insurance, but it still set them back 6 figures. There aren't many people who can withstand that sort of financial setback in their 30s. Now, since her husband had that, he's considered "high risk" and they are paying over 2200 bucks a month for insurance just for them two, at 38 fricking years old. REAL EFFICIENT.

But you think me believing there's a better way as the greatest country on earth to handle this is "re-distributive" and "criminal" then that just shows you have no ability to empathize or try to move forward as a species.






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Moustache
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

Insurance should not be tied to employment.


I agree. And of course, I'd be open to a system that allowed better medical prices and other things. But to deny emergency care to a fellow human being is inhumane. I don't think the cold bloodedness there is needed. What happens if somebody is laid off and cant afford the insurance anymore for a few months? Say their kid gets a preexisting condition during that time. Is that kid fricked and should be left to die? Good people get laid off and medical care shouldn't be something to keep them down IMO.






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Srbtiger06
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

Lady I work with has insurance and pays out the arse for it. Her husband was diagnosed with Leukemia. They had insurance, but it still set them back 6 figures. There aren't many people who can withstand that sort of financial setback in their 30s. Now, since her husband had that, he's considered "high risk" and they are paying over 2200 bucks a month for insurance just for them two, at 38 fricking years old. REAL EFFICIENT.


So we should provide healthcare for everyone because of cases such as that?

Why not look at the reasons their costs were so high? Let's look at why we pay $150 for a nurse to get our height and weight and point us to a room. Correct the COSTS...then look at providing.

quote:

I think healthcare should be viewed more as a right to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.


Two ways of looking at that. You think right to life means healthcare. I look at it as the government won't kill you. It is just open to interpretation.



This post was edited on 2/26 at 3:27 pm


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Moustache
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

hy not look at the reasons their costs were so high? Let's look at why we pay $150 for a nurse to get our height and weight and point us to a room. Correct the COSTS...then look at providing.


I'm for that too. There's just no examples of that in the world, but there ARE examples of successful single payer systems. That's why I chose that.

What will correct the costs in your opinion? Does it involve turning away uninsured people from ER care? If it does, I cannot support it as that is just barbaric IMO.






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gideon
Member since Jan 2013
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

How is it that other "first world" countries like New Zealand, UK, Canada, and Norway/Nordic countries have single payer systems and we cannot? I don't buy the argument that their healthcare is THAT much worse than ours.


Much worse?? Those countries have better healthcare, by almost every measurable metric. I can almost guarantee that citizens of the countries you listed have longer life expectancies and lower infant mortality with fewer hospital visits.

Obama Care may not be the answer, but Healthcare absolutely needed/needs an overhaul.






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HailHailtoMichigan!
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

Moustache
I see your problem. You think the high prices are the result of the insurance companies, which really is not the case.

Also, you do realize that taxes would have to go up about 15% for each family if we were to give them government-run healthcare, right?

I know many families that would suffer greatly from that.






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Moustache
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

wo ways of looking at that. You think right to life means healthcare. I look at it as the government won't kill you. It is just open to interpretation.



Depends on how you want your society to be.

Do you want a society that will let a man die in the hospital because he didn't have insurance when a simple appendectomy could've saved him? Or do you want a society that will have saved him and values human life?







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Moustache
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

Those countries have better healthcare, by almost every measurable metric. I can almost guarantee that citizens of the countries you listed have longer life expectancies and lower infant mortality with fewer hospital visits.

Obama Care may not be the answer, but Healthcare absolutely needed/needs an overhaul.









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Zed
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Member since Feb 2010
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


We have a public/private hybrid healthcare system that sucks up money like a vacuum. We want employer provided insurance when we're young, and government provided healthcare when we get old, and there's no cost containment at all.

We're either going to have to accept much less government involvement in healthcare, or go all in with single payer. We'll do the latter IMO, and when we do we're going to have to make cuts elsewhere.






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Srbtiger06
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

I'm for that too. There's just no examples of that in the world, but there ARE examples of successful single payer systems. That's why I chose that.


Look at the costs for those systems. Why are they so low? I guarantee you it isn't just because they are single payer.

quote:

Does it involve turning away uninsured people from ER care? If it does, I cannot support it as that is just barbaric IMO.



In a non life-threatening situation? Yeah, turn them away.

Heart attacks and legitimate emergencies? No.

quote:

Do you want a society that will let a man die in the hospital because he didn't have insurance when a simple appendectomy could've saved him? Or do you want a society that will have saved him and values human life?


You have more faith in the validity of most ER visits than I do.



This post was edited on 2/26 at 3:33 pm


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Moustache
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military


quote:

I see your problem. You think the high prices are the result of the insurance companies, which really is not the case.


No, I don't really think that at all. I just think the system we have is broken.

quote:

so, you do realize that taxes would have to go up about 15% for each family if we were to give them government-run healthcare, right


What number is that based on? If you want to look at it as implementing a program without us cutting everywhere else, then yeah. I guess it would go up 15%. Cut the fricking defense, welfare, child tax credits, education subsidies, and other bull shite first. I guarantee your number wouldn't approach 15%.







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