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Started By
Message
Realistic look at today's BB game
Posted on 1/12/13 at 10:43 pm
Posted on 1/12/13 at 10:43 pm
I'll get the rationalizations out of the way.
We have 1, maaaaybe 2 players that at this point in time...today...would get significant meaningful playing time for Florida's current team.
Johnny has signed the guys he's needed to sign and maybe one or two others that on paper will upgrade our talent significantly next year.
But given the reality of what we have and where we are now, what are the reasonable expectations. Is it reasonable to expect we should have been playing better ball the last 4 games than we have.
I just want to see some progress and improvement throughout the year in the context of who we are. I'm not sure I'm seeing that of late.
There is certainly the opportunity to achieve that as we go forward and that's what I hope to see.
Just not in the mood to start the oh well, wait till next year stuff yet. We've got some ball left to play and a down conference, I'd just as soon maximize the abilities of the team we have now.
Looking at the conference as a whole I'd rank us somewhere in the range of 7th to 9th talent-wise. That's what my expectation would be at the end of the year, with anything else being a disappointment and anything better being overachievement.
We have 1, maaaaybe 2 players that at this point in time...today...would get significant meaningful playing time for Florida's current team.
Johnny has signed the guys he's needed to sign and maybe one or two others that on paper will upgrade our talent significantly next year.
But given the reality of what we have and where we are now, what are the reasonable expectations. Is it reasonable to expect we should have been playing better ball the last 4 games than we have.
I just want to see some progress and improvement throughout the year in the context of who we are. I'm not sure I'm seeing that of late.
There is certainly the opportunity to achieve that as we go forward and that's what I hope to see.
Just not in the mood to start the oh well, wait till next year stuff yet. We've got some ball left to play and a down conference, I'd just as soon maximize the abilities of the team we have now.
Looking at the conference as a whole I'd rank us somewhere in the range of 7th to 9th talent-wise. That's what my expectation would be at the end of the year, with anything else being a disappointment and anything better being overachievement.
6
Posted on 1/12/13 at 10:51 pm to Tiger Ugly
I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I posted on a North Texas forum today and here is what they had to say about Coach Jones:
So point being, the future is bright!
quote:
If you're not shooting free throws well that has NOTHING to do with Johnny. That's all on the players.
quote:
I liked Johnny, but I'm not sure he was a super coach. And poor free throw shooting seemed to be a North Texas tradition. I bet Johnny will shine at LSU with it's national recruiting ability. Again I really liked JJ but I think he's about a .500 coach.
quote:
You'll grow to love him more than life itself.
quote:
You should have seen where we were before him...and where we are now.
quote:
loved his eyes
quote:
Johnny can recruit extremely well! He runs a well mannered team. He makes players take out earrings at public events. Tie and suit (the whole nine yards). He is not an x's and o's coach. He can you close to the end goal but not quite over the hump. Now that he is in the SEC he can really recruit and the players ability alone can carry him further.
quote:
You can't describe the beauty of a sunset and do justice to its natural brilliance. Someone either sees it with their own eyes and appreciates the majesty, or they don't. Words can't explain true love.
So point being, the future is bright!
Posted on 1/12/13 at 10:55 pm to Tiger Ugly
LSU played tough and didn't give up even down 30 or whatever. They made a big cut into Florida's lead.
The biggest difference was the size of Florida. Everyone was huge in length and shear muscles. And talent obviously.
Nothing much can be done this season. Jones is recruiting and we'll be better pretty quickly. That new talent along with this team's fight and you've got a pretty good ball club.
The biggest difference was the size of Florida. Everyone was huge in length and shear muscles. And talent obviously.
Nothing much can be done this season. Jones is recruiting and we'll be better pretty quickly. That new talent along with this team's fight and you've got a pretty good ball club.
This post was edited on 1/12/13 at 10:56 pm
Posted on 1/12/13 at 11:01 pm to tgr4ever
quote:
So point being, the future is bright!
Admittedly, I was very much against his hire, but after a week of brooding I decided to accept it and support him and my team as best I could.
I'm excited about what I hear about some of the new kids we'll have coming in to help next year and though I don't think he's the only guy we could have hired that could have landed the best of them, I can tell you Trent almost certainly would not have so I'm happy we at least got one of the guys who could.
For me it's too early to judge him as a bench coach. I like some things he does and I'm a bit skeptical of some others...so for me the jury is still out.
And given that JOB3 was ranked somewhere in the high 20's or low 30's by most all recruiting services and to be diplomatic, has not quite lived up to that yet, makes me want to see how well the new guys actually look at this level before organizing a parade.
But that's in the future. What should we reasonably expect this year and is it o.k. to say the last 4 games were disappinting even given our limitations?
Posted on 1/12/13 at 11:08 pm to The Boat
quote:
LSU played tough and didn't give up even down 30 or whatever. They made a big cut into Florida's lead.
I know teams give up at this level all the time so I understand what you're saying, but just me I tend not to give credit for playing hard for 40 minutes. You're supposed to not give up. If there are players who do there are 7 other guys on the bench dying for the opportunity.
Nice run in the second half. Kinda ticked me a bit that we got it to 13 and CJJ then put Hickey on the bench for about 3-4 minutes and it was right back up to 18.
But we got absolutely nothing consistently out of our half-court set. A shot here are there, but nothing strung together. Our only sustained run was off a full-court press and some helter-skelter open court play.
Posted on 1/12/13 at 11:29 pm to The Boat
I think the biggest difference was speed and defense. Donovan has had some great defensive teams, but this one tops the cake. The discipline on that team is uncanny. They play extremely well together. Won't surprised to see that team in the final 4 in march.
Posted on 1/12/13 at 11:30 pm to Tiger Ugly
I see us finishing 19-10. Loss at UK, losses home and away at Mizzou, at Bama, at Tenn and at A&M. Really thought we'd beat Auburn on the road and a little surprised we didn't upset UF. My thoughts on today: bad shot selection combined w/easy shots not falling.
Posted on 1/12/13 at 11:39 pm to Tiger Ugly
We have no size at all and the only legit guy with size we have was injured today. That means we get our arse kicked against a team like UF. Sorry, doesn't mean its time to panic. We knew this when JJ got the job. Next year the talent will be much improved, but young. Hopefully we will compete next year for an NCAA tourny berth.
Posted on 1/12/13 at 11:51 pm to Palm Beach Tiger
quote:
Sorry, doesn't mean its time to panic.
I expected to lose today and lose by double figures so I'm not panicking.
My only point is next year is next year. I'll set my expectations for that team when I see them play a few games.
The SEC is very down and we can win some games and if everyone stays reasonbly healthy and eligible we can get an NIT birth.
But we've seemed to stagnate a bit and played some of our poorer ball of the year since the Christmas break.
This game I'll give mostly to Florida (not all) but Auburn, I'd say the talent is comparable and they got more out of their guys that night.
I'd like to see us get more from ours down the line THIS YEAR and show a bit more individual and team progress and improvement.
Posted on 1/12/13 at 11:57 pm to Tiger Ugly
First 5 of 2nd is scary time for US.
Today we missed soooo many point blank shots. Frustrating to see so many bricks. Played hard just turrable shooting. Team gets stone cold sometimes. Even layups aren't gimmies in those stretches
Today we missed soooo many point blank shots. Frustrating to see so many bricks. Played hard just turrable shooting. Team gets stone cold sometimes. Even layups aren't gimmies in those stretches
Posted on 1/13/13 at 12:05 am to fightingtiger2335
quote:
Today we missed soooo many point blank shots. Frustrating to see so many bricks. Played hard just turrable shooting. Team gets stone cold sometimes. Even layups aren't gimmies in those stretches
We've really struggled in the half-court the last four games. Some of it's just missing some open looks, and yes some of it's not having a reliable post presence, though even as JOB3 struggles he still demands double teams.
But I do think we the ability to execute it better than we have of late and maybe gettng a few more and even better open looks.
Posted on 1/13/13 at 12:05 am to Tiger Ugly
i think 7-9 in the sec is a fair spot for this team.
I know we aren't deep so jj is probably scared of killing the teams legs if we press more or earlier but i think we need to. Id like to see it maybe after our fist basket so we can try and get a quick lead and then maybe switch to the press when we get down in the 10 point range
I know we aren't deep so jj is probably scared of killing the teams legs if we press more or earlier but i think we need to. Id like to see it maybe after our fist basket so we can try and get a quick lead and then maybe switch to the press when we get down in the 10 point range
Posted on 1/13/13 at 12:14 am to heartbreakTiger
quote:I think that would probably land in my reasonable expectaion range.
i think 7-9 in the sec is a fair spot for this team.
I thought early in the year Hammink might be a contributor, but he hasn't hit an outside shot in a month.
Morgan really brings alot defensively, but his offensive game has not caught up yet.
Carmouche as a senior who played alot for Memphis has been a bit disappointing in these first two SEC games.
quote:I think so too. We are really struggling in the half-court right now, against man and zone, but Hickey is just so dynamic in the open court we've got to take some more chances to get turnovers and get him the ball in space, cause we have very little resistane with our post defense.
I know we aren't deep so jj is probably scared of killing the teams legs if we press more or earlier but i think we need to.
Half court traps every now and then would probably help too. Morgan, Coleman, Hickey and Carmouche all seem to excel when we're jumping, running and ball hawking.
Posted on 1/13/13 at 7:14 am to Tiger Ugly
Whoever it was that made the prediction that LSU would make the big dance does not know a thing about basketball. They will be a bubble NIT team this year. A solid NIT next year, and a bubble big dance team in 2 years. Everyone says just wait till JJ gets his recruits. Well, what about all the other sec teams? They will get players as well and will also be better. I believe a realistic expectation for LSU basketball would be a consistent NIT team with a dance bid every 3-4 yrs. To expect anymore is just not realistic.
Posted on 1/13/13 at 7:43 am to Tiger Ugly
Florida is just ahead of where JJ wants LSU to be. Sounds like he is already taking recruiting in the right direction, something that has been lacking. Seems to me he has the plan in order.
Posted on 1/13/13 at 8:00 am to Tiger Ugly
Can't really disagree with anything you have said. Hard to keep your head up after a loss like this. It is still just one loss and we still have only lost 4 games but it is time for this team to decide what kind of season they are goiung to have.
If they don't turn it around it could be as bad as one of Trent's bad years. I don't think that will happen but after a loss to a team we should have beat and an absolute stomping by a team we should at least have kept within 15 or so, it is looking like more of a possibility.
It is hard to assess blame on CJJ at this point. As a former player I can't imagine how a coach can teach poor free throw shooting. That is strictly on the players. You should be able to learn the proper form just by watching a couple of games on tv. After that it is just a matter of practice and confidence.
The same with JOB's jump shot. Even when he is wide open he shoots a fall away line drive type shot. I am sure he has been coached in better form he just does not execute. Only so much a coach can do.
I thought we ran our half courts set offense well. It is obvious Johnny has taught them what to do as well as Billy Donovan had. Their players were just bigger and made better decisions. The former can't be taught but the latter can.
Collins only played four minutes but he was absolutely terrible when he was in there. Still doesn't understand he shouldn't drive because he has no finish and doesn't make good decisions on when to kick or pull up. His passes usually aren't very good either.
Do you realize Stringer only attempted two three pointers? Was Florida's defense that good or are we just that bad?
How could Malik Morgan and Shane Hammink look so good in the early season games and be so bad now? Do they just really not have the talent when we moved up to the better teams or are they going through horrible freshmen slumps?
Why did Carmouche look like a savior and now can't hit a shot?
I would say that only Hickey and Del Pierro played well. It is a crying shame that Andrew doesn't have another year. It is not just that he has improved so much from one season to the next he is getting better every single game. He gave us everything he had yesterday. Hats off to him.
If they don't turn it around it could be as bad as one of Trent's bad years. I don't think that will happen but after a loss to a team we should have beat and an absolute stomping by a team we should at least have kept within 15 or so, it is looking like more of a possibility.
It is hard to assess blame on CJJ at this point. As a former player I can't imagine how a coach can teach poor free throw shooting. That is strictly on the players. You should be able to learn the proper form just by watching a couple of games on tv. After that it is just a matter of practice and confidence.
The same with JOB's jump shot. Even when he is wide open he shoots a fall away line drive type shot. I am sure he has been coached in better form he just does not execute. Only so much a coach can do.
I thought we ran our half courts set offense well. It is obvious Johnny has taught them what to do as well as Billy Donovan had. Their players were just bigger and made better decisions. The former can't be taught but the latter can.
Collins only played four minutes but he was absolutely terrible when he was in there. Still doesn't understand he shouldn't drive because he has no finish and doesn't make good decisions on when to kick or pull up. His passes usually aren't very good either.
Do you realize Stringer only attempted two three pointers? Was Florida's defense that good or are we just that bad?
How could Malik Morgan and Shane Hammink look so good in the early season games and be so bad now? Do they just really not have the talent when we moved up to the better teams or are they going through horrible freshmen slumps?
Why did Carmouche look like a savior and now can't hit a shot?
I would say that only Hickey and Del Pierro played well. It is a crying shame that Andrew doesn't have another year. It is not just that he has improved so much from one season to the next he is getting better every single game. He gave us everything he had yesterday. Hats off to him.
Posted on 1/13/13 at 9:17 am to guttata
quote:
Whoever it was that made the prediction that LSU would make the big dance does not know a thing about basketball.
Without question. We beat no one in our OOC schedule that warranted that kind of optimism, but some I just think are a bit excited and energized by the coaching change and want to see things that aren't there.
quote:
I believe a realistic expectation for LSU basketball would be a consistent NIT team with a dance bid every 3-4 yrs. To expect anymore is just not realistic.
Geez guttata, I would hope we could do better than that. I will say this, there's some 8th and 9th grade kids at U-High, 2 or 3 of them if I'm not mistake that I'm told are national recruits.
CJJ"s son is playing at U-High. That's low-lying fruit and a fortunate circumstance that we can and should take advantage of.
Posted on 1/13/13 at 9:20 am to tjohn deaux
quote:Can't quibble with the recruiting.
Sounds like he is already taking recruiting in the right direction, something that has been lacking
As one who again, admittedly was against his hire I'll repeat that I don't think he's the only coach who could have gotten Martin and Mickey by a long shot. But the way Trent was rolling he may not have, so at least we got one of the ones who could.
I'm looking forward to seeing how good they are.
Posted on 1/13/13 at 9:29 am to Tom Bronco
quote:
The same with JOB's jump shot. Even when he is wide open he shoots a fall away line drive type shot. I am sure he has been coached in better form he just does not execute. Only so much a coach can do.
At this point I'm showing him his shot chart and telling him, hey...you can work on your fall-away and your 3 pointer in the off-season and come back and if you show me you're better at it we'll let you shoot it. But for now look at the numbers...you shoot those and you're coming out. That's what I'd do.
One thing I noticed. Earlier in the year we seemed to be doing more pump fakes and ball fakes in our half court sets. Of late not as much and maybe jacking an early shot instead of faking, penetrating and getting or setting up better shots. Watch Florida. They did that all day.
quote:
Do you realize Stringer only attempted two three pointers? Was Florida's defense that good or are we just that bad?
I'd say a combination, but we all know Stringer can't create his own shot against better teams. He has to get his open looks on early offense or by a the design of the offense.
quote:
How could Malik Morgan and Shane Hammink look so good in the early season games and be so bad now? Do they just really not have the talent when we moved up to the better teams or are they going through horrible freshmen slumps?
IMHO, Morgan is high level SEC ready righ now....
Defensively. Still a good bit of work to do on his offensive game.
Shane hasn't hit a jumper outside 4-feet in a month. And for now he can't create his own shot so hard to put him out there.
quote:I've never seen him as a good shooter, but a solid all phases player. But as a senior and a guy who played significant minutes for a good Memphis team...he's gotta give us more than he has the first 2 SEC games. He's been struggling. Missed layups, missed open looks, turnovers.
Why did Carmouche look like a savior and now can't hit a shot?
Posted on 1/13/13 at 10:58 am to Tiger Ugly
quote:I share your frustration but is that realistic? He's all we've got this year. Most of the shots he took were reasonable shots and the only ones Florida's zone defense was giving us. If he doesn't take those shots who does? It's not the kind of shots he took that bother me, just that his technique is so bad.
At this point I'm showing him his shot chart and telling him, hey...you can work on your fall-away and your 3 pointer in the off-season and come back and if you show me you're better at it we'll let you shoot it. But for now look at the numbers...you shoot those and you're coming out. That's what I'd do.
Next year with a much deeper bench, your suggestion would be the way to go. Bench him if he insists on taking those kind of shots and can't make them.
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