Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy | TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
44197 posts

Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy



As y’all know, I’m a Hall junkie. So, since the Best Ballot Ever is upon us, I figured it would be fun to go through each candidate that has a legit case for induction using the Keltner List. First up is Dale Murphy, on his last trip on the ballot. It’s his 15th year, and he got 14% of the vote last year. He has almost no chance of induction, but here is his last shot at it.

1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?

Absolutely. Murphy won back-to-back MVP’s. He was a godlike figure to baseball fans of a certain era from the southeastern US. Here’s a list of multiple MVP winners who are eligible for the Hall yet not inducted:

Barry Bonds
Juan Gonzalez
Roger Maris

The other sixteen two-time MVP winners who are eligible are in the Hall.

2. Was he the best player on his team?

Yes. But the Braves did suck. But he was the Braves best played for about a decade.

3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?

Yes. If you’re the best player in baseball, it follows that you are also the best centerfielder in the game. Which he was.

4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?

Just one. The Braves won the 1982 NL West by one game and he won the MVP. The Braves don’t make the postseason without Murphy. However, he didn’t play particularly great down the stretch, his real strength was being consistently great all year.

5. Was he a good enough player that he could continue to play regularly after passing his prime?

No. Murphy is being kept out of the Hall because his decline period sucked. In 1987, Murphy hit 295/417/580, had an OPS+ of 157, hit 44 HR, stole 16 bases, and finished a bizarre 11th in the MVP race. He was 31 years old and this would never be a great layer again, and only occasionally even league average. He has perhaps the worst decline phase of any player in MLB history without a major injury or huge drug problem. He just simply stopped playing great baseball for reasons which pass understanding.

Up until 1987, Murphy hit 279/362/500, won two MVPs, hit 310 HR, stole 145 bases, and had an OPS+ of 132. He was one of the very best players on earth. From 1988 on, he hit 234/307/396, hit 88 HR, stole 16 bases, and had an OPS+ of 96. He could only be a MLB regular for four more years. Had he even had a mediocre decline phase, he’d be a no doubt about it, slam dunk Hall of Famer, Any person who rips on “compilers” but does not advocate Murphy for the Hall of Fame is completely full of shite. He is the classic all-peak player.

6. Is he the very best player in baseball history who is not in the Hall of Fame?

Let’s limit it to the eligible. Well, Barry Bonds is better. So is Clemens. But he’s better than a lot of guys on the ballot now, and I can’t think of a player who has fallen off the ballot who Murphy does not compare favorably to.

Let’s compare him to Raines, who I believe should be in the Hall. Murphy hit 265/346/469 with 398 HR and 161 SB. Raines hit 294/385/425 with 170 HR and 808 SB. Raines has a massive edge in getting on base and stolen bases, but Murphy has the edge in power and defense. They aren’t really similar players, and Raines hung on forever, but in their prime, I take Murphy. For career value, I take Raines. Your call.








Back to top
Share:
Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
44197 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


7. Are most players who have comparable career statistics in the Hall of Fame?

According to sim scores, he really only has two similar players, Andruw Jones and Joe Carter.Neither are in, nor will be in the Hall.

The rest of his top ten are classic borderline candidates on both sides: Snider and Santo are in, Hodges and Baylor are out. Carlos Beltran shows up on his comp list, which is about perfect. Well-rounded player, unappreciated, and a bit of a disappointment.

8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?

Black Ink 31. Average HOF 27.
Gray Ink 147. Average HOF 144.
Monitor 116. Likely HOF 100.
Standards 34. Average HOF 50.

Right at the line, really. What kills Murphy again is that decline phase. He didn’t get those counting stats up in the second half of his career. 2111 hits and 1197 runs don’t really cut it. He falls short of 400 HR by 2 measly dingers. He was top 5 in runs five times, yet 174th all-time. He just didn’t compile. He’s 145th all-time in at bats, which is low for a player of his caliber.

9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?

Abso-frickin-lutely. First off, the 1980s were one of the most “honest” eras in baseball history, meaning that we saw neither high peaks in pitching or hitting. Hitting 40 HR was rare, and 50 was considering super human. The offensive explosion of the 90s completely warped our view of offense, and it has killed the 1980s superstars in their historical rep. Guys who put up massive number in those days are now seen as just pretty good, even in our current context. Well, those numbers were massive.

Also, he was a well-rounded player. As a rule, specialists are overrated and well-rounded players are underrated. Guys who do evertyhign well but no one thing fantastic tend to get underrated to guys who did one thing awesome (think Tony Gwynn).

10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame but not in?

He could very well be the best centerfielder not in. OK, Ken Griffey Jr is better but he’s not eligible yet. But Kirby Puckett is in, and I’d say Murphy was a better player than Puckett, who also had a short career. Puckett hit 318/360/477 and had 207 HR and 134 SB. Those are pretty close rate stats only Murphy had better counting numbers and, of course, superior defense and those 5 Gold Gloves. Puckett has the edge in postseason heroics, which count.

11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?

Won twice. Could’ve won another two. It’s just that people got tired of him winning it.

12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the other players who played in this many go to the Hall of Fame?

7 All Star Games. Guys who appear in 7 AS Games are a mixed bag. You’ve got all-time greats like Gehrig, Koufax, and Biggio. You’ve got very good guys like Doby, Hoffman, Tony Perez, and Molitor. And you’ve got guys like Billy Pierce and Rudy York. It’s, once again, right on the cusp.

13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?

Clearly not, given the Braves success in the 1980s. Though that says more about the Braves than Murphy.

14. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?

He is the defining player of the Braves in the TBS era, expanding the popularity of baseball into the South. He’s also one of the most clean living people imaginable and has been an outspoken advocate against PED’s. Outside of Frank Thomas, I can’t think of a player more identified as anti-PED advocate. So if you’re looking for the anti-steroid poster boy, it’s Murphy. It’s also entirely possible the reason his decline was so precipitous was because of widespread PED use around the league.

15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?

By all accounts, he is one of the most genuinely good hearted and decent people to ever play baseball. He’s not just godlike due to his ability, but his demeanor.

MY VOTE: YES. Sure, he has a short career and he’s on the cusp, but he had an awesome peak and was a truly iconic player. He’s also the perfect anti-PED candidate, I don’t understand voting against Bonds, but not supporting Murphy.






Back to top
LSUBoo
Bowling Green Fan
None. None More Black.
Member since Mar 2006
59883 posts
 Online 

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


No

Why, because frick Atlanta, that's why.

Seriously though, he has a spot waiting for him in the Hall of Really Good.






Back to top
SpqrTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2004
5922 posts
 Online 

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


Nice post, Baloo. And I agree with you. Vote yes on Dale Murphy.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Billy Mays
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Jan 2009
17360 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


quote:

No

Why, because frick Atlanta, that's why.

Seriously though, he has a spot waiting for him in the Hall of Really Good.






Back to top
OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40382 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


Nice read.

I think the Vet's committee will elect him, but he stands almost zero chance to get in by the BBWAA.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Lester Earl
LSU Fan
#buganation
Member since Nov 2003
188602 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


nope.

at his peak he was really good, but that level was not sustained long enough. or even close to it.

he was somewhat of a late bloomer, & as you pointed out, his decline started in his early 30's, which together creates his downfall






Back to top
stapuffmarshy
Syracuse Fan
lower 9
Member since Apr 2010
12905 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


Murph was a great player for about 10 years. Maybe the best of that time


but when it failed for him, it failed huge.

That is the reason he'll never make it.

If he could have had just 5 average seasons I think he gets in, he was that good in his prime


but that long swing, when it slowed a millisecond it finished him and he really couldn't adjust


I love the guy as a kid but no HOF for him






Back to top
  Replies (0)
LSUMJ
LSU Fan
BR
Member since Sep 2004
14924 posts
 Online 

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


since he was my childhood hero and my room was covered in dale murphy posters, he should be in









Back to top
  Replies (0)
lsutigers1992
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2006
11774 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


It's the hypocrisy of the HOF. You can count the power-hitting, defensive outfielders of the 1980s as good as him on one hand. But then they say his power numbers don't compare to the all-time record breakers. But then they won't put the all-time record players because they admitted they cheated. He's 53rd on the all-time HR list, which might suck. But when you consider that half the people ahead of him come from the steroid era, and the only power hitters of the 80s who are miles ahead of him are Mike Schmidt, Eddie Murray, and Andre Dawson...

He has more than Jim Rice, and isn't Jim Rice in? Rice never won a World Series either.



This post was edited on 11/29 at 12:59 pm


Back to top
Dale Murphy
LA-Monroe Fan
God's Country
Member since Feb 2005
20919 posts
 Online 

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


I'm going to vote...



yes






Back to top
  Replies (0)
Baloo
LSU Fan
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
44197 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


quote:

He has more than Jim Rice, and isn't Jim Rice in? Rice never won a World Series either.


This bothers me. The BBWAA has just inducted a string of borderline candidates: Rice, Perez, and Dawson. And none of them, repeat, NONE had as good of a resume as Dale Murphy. who, also, was a really nice guy who may have had his numbers artificially deflated by the oneset of the steroid era.

I don't see how you can have a Hall with Jim Rice and not Dale Murphy. Jim Rice is a poor man's Albert Belle.






Back to top
ToplessTenors4evuh
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2005
41241 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


If Keith Hernandez isn't in, then frick a Dale Murphy.


....Sorry, Dale.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
barry
Cincinnati Fan
Location, Location, Location
Member since Aug 2006
38588 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


For Scott Rolen. I know he hasn't officially retired but he appears to be a border line HOF.

Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?
I don't really think so but he did play right through the steroid era so if you were jacking 50 HR's good luck.

Was he the best player on his team?
In Philly yes. In STL, well he just happened to have one of the greatest hitters in MLB history on his team. Tough break

Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?
Scott and Chipper. Chipper and Scott. I'd consider they went back and forth at times as the best 3rd basemen in baseball for the last 15 years. Chipper with the better bat, Rolen with his defense.

Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?
He was in several as a cardinal and had a phenomenal 2004 WS with a 1.2+ OPS

Was he a good enough player that he could continue to play regularly after passing his prime?
Had a great 10 year run from 97-06. In his last 6 seasons from 32-37 he really fell back offensively, going from a 130 OPS+ in his prime to a 107 in his last 6 seasons. I think his defense held up better than his bat and he had health issues.

Is he the very best player in baseball history who is not in the Hall of Fame?
Seeing as he's not elibible yet its a little early to say.

Are most players who have comparable career statistics in the Hall of Fame?
Luis Gonzalez (911)
Jeff Kent (900)

Luis is an PED guy so through him out Kent is a future HOF but his numbers come at a more power deprived position of 2B.


Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?
Gray Ink Batting - 27 (861), Average HOFer ˜ 144
Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 99 (161), Likely HOFer ˜ 100
Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 40 (164), Average HOFer ˜ 50
JAWS Third Base (10th), 66.6 career WAR/39.5 7yr-peak WAR/53.1 JAWS
Average HOF 3B (out of 12) = 64.9 career WAR/41.8 7yr-peak WAR/53.4 JAWS

I don't know why Gray Ink hates him so much but other tend to be inline. Problem is there have been sooooo few 3B in the HOF only 12 so far.

Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?
His defense. I don't feel like defensive metrics do a lot of good right now. Anyone who has watched Rolen play can tell you he was a phenomenal 3B. I've never seen Schmidt or Brooks play ball but I can't imagine the defense being that much better than Rolens.

Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame but not in?
Too soon. But if he retires now he'll go on the same ballot as Chipper which will hurt him some, but he's better than any 3B on there now.

How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?
One MVP caliber season in 2004, a guy named Bonds one it that year for some reason. Between Bonds and Pujols there weren't alot of NL MVP's up for grabs. Always been a realy good hitter but unfortunately defense at 3B isn't as sexy as other positions.

How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the other players who played in this many go to the Hall of Fame?
7x All star, before 2001 Chipper was taking up the 3B allstar duties in the NL

If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?
This is a tough question. It's baseball and Ken Griffey Jr couldn't get it done. I think this is a stupid question and thats all i have to say.

What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?
Baseball history, thats really tough to say. I don't think he did.

Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?

I guess the only X-factor is that he was a pro's pro, he went out there played his arse off and did his job. Great club house guy and heavily respected by everyone in major league baseball. I'll just leave this quote from Johnny Gomes right here.
“You’ve got the loud guys, the vocal guys, but with him, it’s the eye contact, the silent treatment,” Gomes said. “He’s 6-5, 250, and he looks right through you when he wants to. It’s kind of like when you’re 8 years old and you disappoint your dad.”


My vote: Yes. One of the 3 best defensive 3B in history and one of the 10 best offensive 3B.






Back to top
Lester Earl
LSU Fan
#buganation
Member since Nov 2003
188602 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


do you think aramis ramirez gets in when its said and done





Back to top
Zach
LSU Fan
Member since May 2005
65128 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


I was a DM fan but would not vote him into the Hall. My issue with him was quality ABs. When he didn't get a hit he either struck out, hit a pop up or grounded into a double play. He was a rally killer.





Back to top
  Replies (0)
barry
Cincinnati Fan
Location, Location, Location
Member since Aug 2006
38588 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


quote:

do you think aramis ramirez gets in when its said and done


Probably not. He's a great HR hitter but not much past that and he was an average fielder at 3B.






Back to top
legba
Alabama Fan
at the crossroads
Member since Oct 2010
521 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


was really good, but not hall of fame good. I loved dale as a kid, but only hit 300 2xs in his career





Back to top
barry
Cincinnati Fan
Location, Location, Location
Member since Aug 2006
38588 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


quote:

but only hit 300 2xs in his career









Back to top
  Replies (0)
FightinTigersDammit
Northwestern St. Fan
Farmerville LA
Member since Mar 2006
7310 posts

re: Hall of Fame candidate: Dale Murphy


Back-to-back MVPs is pretty stout, though. Few people remember Maris won the MVP the year BEFORE he hit 61...its not like he had one great season





Back to top


Back to top