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Looking at municipal bonds..

Posted on 6/10/12 at 9:10 pm
Posted by Kolbysfan
Tennessee
Member since Jun 2007
1825 posts
Posted on 6/10/12 at 9:10 pm
Seems like a safe bet with a modest return, roughly 5%. my wife is adamant about not putting money into a 529 or annuity, do to the risk, for the kids college so I started looking at other options and discovered these. It appears this is a tax free investment? What are other pros vs cons.

I'm looking at investing 10k for the three kids ages 6,4, and 3. Find one with a maturity date that would coincide with the oldest's high school grad. cash out. Reinvest the other two kid's money into a short term to prepare for their graduation.

Posted by Janky
Team Primo
Member since Jun 2011
35957 posts
Posted on 6/10/12 at 9:17 pm to
Uhh...... Annuities and 529 plans are not securities. Therefore, they can be as safe or aggressive as you choose. They are basically just wrappers that offer different tax structures.
Posted by Tigris
Mexican Home
Member since Jul 2005
12347 posts
Posted on 6/10/12 at 9:48 pm to
You may want to consider municipal bond funds rather than specific bonds in order to spread the risk around. There are funds for specific states so that you get state and federal tax benefits. On the plus side municipal bonds are paying fairly decent interest rates (for the times) and they are tax free. The tax free status makes them a bad fit for 529s and retirement accounts, though. On the negative side if we ever get into inflation the value of bonds will fall. Also, if we are headed for a recession there could be some defaults. Even in the Great Depression the rate of default wasn't terrible, though.

Posted by foshizzle
Washington DC metro
Member since Mar 2008
40599 posts
Posted on 6/10/12 at 11:12 pm to
Sure, munis are tax-free but so is anything you put into a Roth. A 401(k) is tax-deferred instead of tax-free but I would still prefer that here.

Be advised that the reason munis are offering a 5% return tax-free is that local governments are under enormous financial pressure these days.

Don't get me wrong, a muni can be an okay investment depending on the specific muni in question. But this just isn't anything to consider until you are already maxing your Roth.
Posted by tirebiter
7K R&G chile land aka SF
Member since Oct 2006
9181 posts
Posted on 6/11/12 at 1:55 am to
quote:

Seems like a safe bet with a modest return, roughly 5%. my wife is adamant about not putting money into a 529 or annuity, do to the risk, for the kids college so I started looking at other options and discovered these. It appears this is a tax free investment? What are other pros vs cons.


If a diversified tax exempt high yield fund is yielding 2.78% I don't want to see the 5% bonds. Or are we talking potential total return on an asset class that is close to its floor on SEC yield??? Personally, I have not added to tax exempt since Meredith Whitney was blowing her pie hole at full tilt regarding muni's, but she did help create some opps. Fixed income investing is difficult now, maybe some Ibonds could be part of your plan as no potential loss of principal???
Posted by TheHiddenFlask
The Welsh red light district
Member since Jul 2008
18384 posts
Posted on 6/11/12 at 7:21 am to
Now that everyone has been helpful, your wife is over opinionated and under educated, financially. I wouldn't let her have any more input on the situation until she actually tries to understand some of these things. You took the correct approach by asking someone else.

Munis can be very risky securities and should not have money thrown blindly at them.
Posted by Kolbysfan
Tennessee
Member since Jun 2007
1825 posts
Posted on 6/11/12 at 7:37 am to
We are both uneducated in finances beyond balancing the check book. That's why I was smart enough to come here!!

As far as being over opinionated.......you can tell her cause I sure as heck 'ain't. You ever tried to tell a dago to shut her trap?!?!?!?!
Posted by Quidam65
Q Continuum
Member since Jun 2010
19307 posts
Posted on 6/11/12 at 8:15 am to
quote:

As far as being over opinionated.......you can tell her cause I sure as heck 'ain't.


I don't want to deal with her husband. (Former pro wrestler John Bradshaw Layfield)
Posted by kennypowers816
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2010
2443 posts
Posted on 6/11/12 at 8:22 am to
quote:

As far as being over opinionated.......you can tell her cause I sure as heck 'ain't. You ever tried to tell a dago to shut her trap?!?!?!?!


Posted by TheHiddenFlask
The Welsh red light district
Member since Jul 2008
18384 posts
Posted on 6/11/12 at 8:24 am to
quote:

As far as being over opinionated.......you can tell her cause I sure as heck 'ain't. You ever tried to tell a dago to shut her trap?!?!?!?!


Just link her to this thread. I was being as nice as possible when I chose my words.

Her random opinions will cost you a lot of money. A 529 account is probably the best way to go. Go print off the definitions of a 529 account and then ask her why she thinks they are "risky". after that, "ease her fears" by pointing out that she doesn't understand what it is.
Posted by rmc
Truth or Consequences
Member since Sep 2004
26493 posts
Posted on 6/11/12 at 8:38 am to
quote:

A 529 account is probably the best way to go.


If you get into Louisiana's 529 program, you get a match based on your income and they have a fixed income option.

quote:

Louisiana Principal Protection Fund: This fund is the most conservative START Saving Program investment plan and is managed by the Louisiana State Treasurer. This fund invests 100% of Deposits and interest earned thereon in Fixed Earnings investments such as government and corporate bonds, notes, and certificates of deposit. The State guarantees the return of your principal so you cannot lose money, but it does not guarantee any particular investment return. Every other fund involves some risk of loss of principal.


I'm not sure what the return on it is. But, between the match, the state income tax deduction and the return, he would be doing better to stick it in the 529 rather than muni bonds for his purposes. Not to mention having 3 kids and being able to move it to a certain kid if one of the others doesn't use it for whatever reason.
Posted by GoCrazyAuburn
Member since Feb 2010
34869 posts
Posted on 6/11/12 at 8:41 am to
Like Flask said, you both need to read up on 529 plans. They are amazing for college savings, and you should really think about doing them.

However, if your wife is adamant about not doing a 529 plan, I would look at doing a permanent life insurance policy on your child over investing in a municiple bond from one of the big 3 companies. They are less risky than municiple bonds, have a better return, and offer a ton more flexibility.

First and foremost, really read up on all the options, because there is really no reason to be against 529 plans for their risk.
Posted by Kolbysfan
Tennessee
Member since Jun 2007
1825 posts
Posted on 6/11/12 at 9:09 am to
Thanks. I will do some googling.
Posted by greenhead11
Member since Feb 2012
922 posts
Posted on 6/11/12 at 10:52 am to
quote:

Seems like a safe bet with a modest return, roughly 5%.
To add to what has already been said, yes 529 plans are great options for education savings.

This is a very dangerous assumption. There are obviously 2 ways I see it invest in munies and that's through funds or buying bonds directly.

Option A. Funds- allow you diversify your risk in terms of maturity, credit rating, Interst rate sensitivity, duration risks, etc. however you aren't "garunanteed" repayment of initial invested capital

Option B. individual Muni bonds- pro- you are "garunanteed" payment of face value of the bonds so long as they don't default.

Con - you can not diversify your risk appropriately in terms of interest rate, credit, and duration with limited knowledge. I would stick to shorter term duration bonds right now that would reduce your duration and interest rate risk

Best advice: use a 529 plan, diversify your holdings between some laddered duration bonds, conservative mutual funds, and may be a few equity index funds. You have at least a 10 year time horizon and I promise you college tuition is rising a hell of a lot faster than the Interst rate you get from bonds. The rate difference between a dividend paying Johnson and Johnson vs. a bond has never been more compelling towards stocks.
Posted by kfizzle85
Member since Dec 2005
22022 posts
Posted on 6/11/12 at 11:09 am to
Duration or maturity?
Posted by greenhead11
Member since Feb 2012
922 posts
Posted on 6/11/12 at 1:19 pm to
Maturity...
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