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Message
re: Wildlife and Fisheries and Ducks Unlimited have destroyed Rollover Bayou
Posted on 9/1/15 at 4:01 pm to TBoy
Posted on 9/1/15 at 4:01 pm to TBoy
quote:
Be careful. Just because someone is spending money near the coast does not mean that they are "protecting what we have." What I see is that there is a strong effort in Southwest Louisiana to eliminate or shrink the coastal marsh to make more land available for cattle and duck ponds. That is not "preserving" what we have, it is changing the coastal environment to suit a commercial desire
Its not YOUR resource. You have no exclusive rights to it. As such, things happen that may not be in your individual interest, but are for the better overall. Yes, the waterway will be impacted for the near-term. But why don't you let them finish and see how things go, before you declare DU/LDWF dick heads serving only the well organized.
Or you could always get your own organization together and have a say so in what is done.
Nah, easier just to bitch about things.
2
Posted on 9/1/15 at 4:26 pm to tigerinthebueche
Easier to bitch. Right. How's "management" been for Miller Bayou, Big Constance Bayou, Bayou Pigeon and Dyson Bayou? That's right. The "management" to clear the marsh for ducks by the choking use of the weirs and dams has killed all of these waterways over the last 20 years.
Just to test your familiarity, what is every duck lease holder in that part of the state doing right now? Any idea? They are spraying their leases with herbicides to create clear water to attract ducks to land. Guess what that does to the coastal marsh. Go ahead, tell the people what that does.
How are the weirs used to manage the water level in the winters? They are used to keep the fresh water in the marsh unnaturally high. Why? To make landing areas on duck leases. Want to guess what that does to the saltwater marsh grasses? The ones not completely wiped out by the herbicides?
Sure, White Lake is a treasure. Antonin Sclaia and Dick Cheney hunt there. Leases are worth a fortune if well marketed. That money grab is spreading south of the highway. We need a Lorax for the health of the coastal marsh cause they are intentionally killing it, and the estuary and hatchery right along with it.
Just to test your familiarity, what is every duck lease holder in that part of the state doing right now? Any idea? They are spraying their leases with herbicides to create clear water to attract ducks to land. Guess what that does to the coastal marsh. Go ahead, tell the people what that does.
How are the weirs used to manage the water level in the winters? They are used to keep the fresh water in the marsh unnaturally high. Why? To make landing areas on duck leases. Want to guess what that does to the saltwater marsh grasses? The ones not completely wiped out by the herbicides?
Sure, White Lake is a treasure. Antonin Sclaia and Dick Cheney hunt there. Leases are worth a fortune if well marketed. That money grab is spreading south of the highway. We need a Lorax for the health of the coastal marsh cause they are intentionally killing it, and the estuary and hatchery right along with it.
Posted on 9/1/15 at 4:39 pm to TBoy
If I had to guess. I bet there are far more areas that were once fresh that turned salty than the other way around.
Posted on 9/1/15 at 5:11 pm to Bass_Man
Bass_Man, you are certainly correct about that in the Eastern part of the state. The channeling of the Mississippi water and sediment past New Orleans for river traffic has reduced the natural deposits of sediment all over the delta. Also, production canals for oil and gas have allowed unfiltered and undiluted ocean strength salt water to go right past the natural coastline to inland lakes and waterways where full strength saltwater kills the natural vegetation. Those forces in the eastern part of the state have led to the prevailing attitude (which defies nature) that salt water is always bad for the coast.
However, the natural state of things is that there is the Gulf and its full strength salt water. At the shoreline, the Gulf water meets a natural deposit of sand and sediment. Behind that in low lying areas is brackish marsh, which accepts tidal flow from the Gulf and fresh rain and runoff from the north. The salt water in the marsh is diluted, brackish, and there are many natural grasses and plants which grow in that environment, filtering the water and keeping the soil together. North of the marshy transition zone is the salt line, beyond which is only fresh water.
In the coastal area of Vermilion and Cameron Parishes the Mississippi River dynamic isn't at play. The area isn't starved for fresh water and sediment. There is sand all along the shoreline. The Gulf offshore is shallow for a significant distance due to the amount of natural sediment. There is also a huge brackish coastal marsh which separates the fresh and salt areas and protects the coastline. The problem is that they are intentionally pushing fresh water into the coastal marsh to support duck hunting. To the folks on the eastern side of the state, where lack of fresh water has led to significant erosion, that sounds like a good thing. Except that it isn't. Just like the production canals harm the coast by allowing undiluted salt water to bypass the transition zone, the forced introduction of excessive levels of fresh water into the coastal marsh will kill the marsh.
However, the natural state of things is that there is the Gulf and its full strength salt water. At the shoreline, the Gulf water meets a natural deposit of sand and sediment. Behind that in low lying areas is brackish marsh, which accepts tidal flow from the Gulf and fresh rain and runoff from the north. The salt water in the marsh is diluted, brackish, and there are many natural grasses and plants which grow in that environment, filtering the water and keeping the soil together. North of the marshy transition zone is the salt line, beyond which is only fresh water.
In the coastal area of Vermilion and Cameron Parishes the Mississippi River dynamic isn't at play. The area isn't starved for fresh water and sediment. There is sand all along the shoreline. The Gulf offshore is shallow for a significant distance due to the amount of natural sediment. There is also a huge brackish coastal marsh which separates the fresh and salt areas and protects the coastline. The problem is that they are intentionally pushing fresh water into the coastal marsh to support duck hunting. To the folks on the eastern side of the state, where lack of fresh water has led to significant erosion, that sounds like a good thing. Except that it isn't. Just like the production canals harm the coast by allowing undiluted salt water to bypass the transition zone, the forced introduction of excessive levels of fresh water into the coastal marsh will kill the marsh.
Posted on 9/1/15 at 6:19 pm to TBoy
You don't think the very dry last 2 months may have contributed to the lack of shrimp you caught? I went to Joseph Harbor a couple months ago and the marsh was very dry. I still caught shrimp and crabs at the mudhole, but the marsh was very, very dry.
Posted on 9/1/15 at 6:41 pm to tigerinthebueche
quote:
Or you could always get your own organization together and have a say so in what is done.
GALAXY BRO
Posted on 9/1/15 at 6:47 pm to TBoy
quote:
In the coastal area of Vermilion and Cameron Parishes the Mississippi River dynamic isn't at play.
That's not exactly true. Where do you think the cheniers and sediment for the marsh surrounding them came from?
Posted on 9/1/15 at 7:30 pm to Sasquatch Smash
I mean to be fair cheniers are a result of waves and not River
Posted on 9/1/15 at 7:36 pm to TBoy
I still fail to see how getting rid of coastal salt water marsh for duck hunting is good for anything other than duck hunting. I was under the impression that coastal erosion was one of the top three issues facing the state 
Posted on 9/1/15 at 7:38 pm to TBoy
Well the geomorphology at Rockefeller vs the terrebonne basin going east are very different. Sure they can take out weir in big lake and other areas and let nature do its thing. But I can assure you over a generation the marshes will erode and open up and we will be left with a Baffin or Galveston bay. Take your pick buddy. Sorry you can't catch shrimp while a tarpon rodeo stripper that got tipped a cast net can catch 50lbs of 30ct or better shrimp from Elmer's beach during her 2 hours off the pole while watching her kids while you struggle at shrimp Mecca.
Posted on 9/1/15 at 8:02 pm to Capt ST
I'll have a double of whatever Capt ST is drinking. 
I've said my peace.
I've said my peace.
Posted on 9/1/15 at 9:10 pm to jimbeam
Wave action does play a large role, but the deltaic cycle of the river provided the sediments.
Posted on 9/1/15 at 9:31 pm to Capt ST
quote:
Baffin
Baffin Bay is a negative estuary (evaporation exceeds freshwater inflow). Therefore, it is hypersaline with salinity higher than sea water. (There are also some water mixing stuff in play as well.) It gets flushed out with the rare huge rain event (i.e. tropical storms) in its watershed.
Basically an impossible situation in Louisiana with the rainfall totals and less tropical climate.
Why would you pick Texas bay systems anyway?
Posted on 9/2/15 at 1:29 am to Capt ST
Nice to see some sane answers from other coastal folk.
Funny how everyone is for restoration until it happens, at which point they become experts and are against it.
Funny how everyone is for restoration until it happens, at which point they become experts and are against it.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 6:55 am to Sasquatch Smash
quote:
Basically an impossible situation in Louisiana with the rainfall totals and less tropical climate.
Why would you pick Texas bay systems anyway?
I just see us left with beach fronts and large back bays much like what we are seeing in terrebonne and barataria basins, regardless of rainfall and salinity levels. Speaking of water, what happens when the LA legislature decides to sell water off Toledo bend?
Posted on 9/3/15 at 8:38 am to TBoy
There's a lot to be said about the management implications, some based on science, some based on opinion but speaking to the facts of the original post... This work is actually replacing the existing structure damaged in a past storm with the exact same design using FEMA money, not a more restrictive structure, not DU money (though DU is managing the contract). And like someone else said a lot of what you see is necessary for construction but will be removed/replaced later.
Posted on 9/3/15 at 9:14 am to Hammertime
quote:
I still fail to see how getting rid of coastal salt water marsh for duck hunting is good for anything other than duck hunting. I was under the impression that coastal erosion was one of the top three issues facing the state
Fresh water does not cause erosion. Salt killing vegetation is a bigger culprit.
Posted on 9/3/15 at 11:54 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Fresh water does not cause erosion. Salt killing vegetation is a bigger culprit.
That only applies if the salt water is intruding into an area with freshwater vegetation. However, if you are forcing unnatural amounts of fresh water into a brackish marsh, populated by saltwater marsh grasses, you will kill the saltwater marsh grass. Folks get so myopic based upon the common problem of production channels allowing salt water to bypass the coastal zone and the problems that causes. It is an equally serious problem to force fresh water into the brackish marsh. either way the problem is artificially changing the natural composition of the water, which kills what is there. Once you kill the natural vegetation, erosion can occur.
Perhaps you recall a variant of this occurring during the oil spill. When the oil and dispersant was drifting toward the oyster beds they opened up the flood control structures to send large amounts of fresh water into the oyster beds to push the oil away. The current of fresh water succeeded in keeping the oil out of most of the beds but the fresh water killed the oysters anyway. (The oysters were doomed but the choice was made to kill them clean so they could come back.)
Forcing excess levels of fresh water to accumulate in the salt water marsh promotes ducks for hunters but it kills the marsh.
Why is this difficult to understand?
Posted on 9/3/15 at 11:57 am to TBoy
Fresh water won't kill saltwater species. Those species will just be outcompeted by fresh water species.
Just to clarify.
Just to clarify.
This post was edited on 9/3/15 at 12:36 pm
Posted on 9/3/15 at 12:28 pm to jimbeam
This thread has turned into an interesting and informative discussion.
to the participants.
to the participants. 
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