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Message
re: ***UPDATE NO.3**My new AR is cycling .223 fine but hanging up on 5.56
Posted on 1/12/15 at 2:46 pm to 4X4DEMON
Posted on 1/12/15 at 2:46 pm to 4X4DEMON
quote:
is the bcg touching the case?
Touching as in how? Completely in it's forward and locked position after chambering a round or touching as in friction touching along the rails internally. If you mean touching as in completely locked forward after chambering, then it is NOT after 5.56 round but is after .223 round.
0
Posted on 1/12/15 at 2:49 pm to ChatRabbit77
quote:
Like everyone said, check the headspace. Do not shoot until you get this done. I watched a video today of a guy shooting a century arms ak. It was not properly headspaced and blew up after about 5 rounds
lol, I dont know what that will give me. Im assuming I need to order a headspace gauge (not sure which one), check my bore (or my BCG?) and then once that info is gathered, it will tell me what exactly? What course of action do I take after that. I am calling PSA today, and I have a feeling I will get a "ship it back to us response" so hopefully they take care of it, but if I get the run-around, I will have to DIY. I am just ingorant to what is needed and what the gathered info will tell me exactly.
Posted on 1/12/15 at 3:01 pm to dnm3305
quote:
Im ignorant to this
Sounds like you are getting frustrated, take it to a local gunsmith and let them check it out for you - you will run in circles trying to stay caught up in a thread..
Posted on 1/12/15 at 3:06 pm to swanny297
quote:
Sounds like you are getting frustrated, take it to a local gunsmith and let them check it out for you - you will run in circles trying to stay caught up in a thread..
quote:
Sounds like you are getting frustrated,
I am. It would be simple if someone would map out a detailed order of events.
1. Buy a headspace gauge (which one exactly)
2. Learn how to use headspace gauge
3. After learning how to use gauge, accumulate info
4. After you have your info, it should tell you this, this, and this.
5. You need to send your upper in after discovering this.
quote:
take it to a local gunsmith and let them check it out for you
I am trying to avoid this because if I let someone do this for me, then what exactly have I learned? Nothing. I want to try and figure this out, just need a little guidance. Im also a cheap bastard when it comes to paying someone to do something that I feel I can figure out on my own.
Posted on 1/12/15 at 3:16 pm to dnm3305
Just checked bayoutecheguns.net and according to their gunsmithing price list, it's $200 to "set barrel back and correct headspace". Yea, that's not gonna work. Im not gonna pay $200 to correct a brand new part that should have come out the box inspected and ready to go.
Posted on 1/12/15 at 3:27 pm to bbvdd
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Posted on 1/12/15 at 3:49 pm to dnm3305
One last question, are these new bullets or reloads?
Posted on 1/12/15 at 5:26 pm to bbvdd
American Eagle 55gr bought from PSA
Posted on 1/12/15 at 6:13 pm to ChatRabbit77
quote:
Like everyone said, check the headspace.
Posted on 1/12/15 at 6:26 pm to dnm3305
For all those that are jumping on the headspacing bandwagon...
...does 1/4 of an inch out of battery sound like a headspace issue? Especially considering it is cycling .223. Before you chasing your tail with a headspace gauge that will tell you little to nothing, go find another action spring (the misnamed buffer spring) and a H2 buffer to swap in and try 5.56 again. According to PSA you have a standard weight buffer which isn't exactly the best choice for a carbine. Another thing, you are using Remington hunting ammo that is loaded a bit hotter than typical XM193 and might be masking another issue. Swap the parts out, and just use the the American Eagle ammo. Need to post pics of all the BCG parts, buffer face, and inside the upper where the BCG rides.
quote:
It seemed as if the BCG was getting caught up about .25" from being in full battery.
...does 1/4 of an inch out of battery sound like a headspace issue? Especially considering it is cycling .223. Before you chasing your tail with a headspace gauge that will tell you little to nothing, go find another action spring (the misnamed buffer spring) and a H2 buffer to swap in and try 5.56 again. According to PSA you have a standard weight buffer which isn't exactly the best choice for a carbine. Another thing, you are using Remington hunting ammo that is loaded a bit hotter than typical XM193 and might be masking another issue. Swap the parts out, and just use the the American Eagle ammo. Need to post pics of all the BCG parts, buffer face, and inside the upper where the BCG rides.
Posted on 1/12/15 at 7:10 pm to Clames
quote:
Before you chasing your tail with a headspace gauge that will tell you little to nothing
It will tell you if it is even safe to fire the thing with 5.56mm ammo. I don't know about you, Clames, but that's a big deal for me.
quote:
does 1/4 of an inch out of battery sound like a headspace issue?
Not necessarily, but it is something that ought to be checked - ASAP.
quote:
go find another action spring (the misnamed buffer spring) and a H2 buffer to swap in and try 5.56 again. According to PSA you have a standard weight buffer which isn't exactly the best choice for a carbine.
If a weapon cycles with 1 loading but not another, on a relatively consistent basis, it could be 1 of 1000 things, and the spring is high on the list of suspects - I do not question this. In this case, it's running with a heavier, but faster bullet, and not with the lighter, slower.
But, I would still get the headspace checked before I ran dozens or hundreds of other diagnostic rounds through - but I'm a cautious guy with firearms.
Posted on 1/12/15 at 7:22 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
It will tell you if it is even safe to fire the thing with 5.56mm ammo. I don't know about you, Clames, but that's a big deal for me.
Are you trying to preach to the choir? Think I don't know that or have a few sets of gauges of my own? My point though, was that given this is a 5.56 chambered upper and looking at how the problem has been described I'd try something else first.
quote:
but I'm a cautious guy with firearms
So am I, but I'm also a better trouble shooter and know these rifles better than 99% of those that post here too. Also trying to teach the OP how to properly look through this issue too, which means examining all the parts involved which necessitates photos.
Posted on 1/12/15 at 7:27 pm to Clames
I'm with Clames, except I'm on a tablet and wasn't types ng all that. I was going to say try a different buffer.
Posted on 1/12/15 at 7:28 pm to ChatRabbit77
LINK
Video I referenced. And if you do not want to deal with it, take to any gunsmith.
Video I referenced. And if you do not want to deal with it, take to any gunsmith.
This post was edited on 1/12/15 at 7:30 pm
Posted on 1/12/15 at 9:37 pm to ChatRabbit77
I had the same problem on a build.
One of the springs was upside down. Dont remember which one.
One of the springs was upside down. Dont remember which one.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 6:49 am to Drop4Loss
No disrespect but you guys seriously need to either do some research or just take your rifles to a qualified gunsmith.
FIRST thing OP needs to do is find out how this barrel is chambered. 5.56 and .223 are not the same thing. Without writing a page on info you can get from Google, the 5.56 chamber leade is "longer" which means you can safely shoot .223 in it but not vice versa. Meaning if he has a .223 chambered barrel he can be subject to unsafe pressures when firing 5.56. Someone should have discussed this as soon as he mentioned that he is interchanging rounds.
Next, 5.56 is generally mil spec ammo with much harder primers. Instead of the aforementioned bolt closing issues, I would check assembly of the hammer spring to see if it is oriented correctly first. Incorrect placement of the spring legs will result in half power hammer fall and failure to ignite mil primers. Common mistake by home assemblers.
That being said, if this is a headspace issue then you have a potentially dangerous situation. Remember that you are holding a metal tube up to your face and initiating explosions at thousands of pounds of pressure. Not something to be treated lightly.
Check the chambering, verify correct assembly of your fire control components and then send the rifle to PSA or a gunsmith if headspace is suspected. Not to be insulting but this isn't something a first timer should be fooling with.
BTW, buffer weight and spring rate diagnosis is called for with regular malfunction issues such as bolt over case, double feeds and failure to chamber. Not what he is describing here as a caliber specific malfunction. I am pretty sure this is a FTF related to the hammer spring.
FIRST thing OP needs to do is find out how this barrel is chambered. 5.56 and .223 are not the same thing. Without writing a page on info you can get from Google, the 5.56 chamber leade is "longer" which means you can safely shoot .223 in it but not vice versa. Meaning if he has a .223 chambered barrel he can be subject to unsafe pressures when firing 5.56. Someone should have discussed this as soon as he mentioned that he is interchanging rounds.
Next, 5.56 is generally mil spec ammo with much harder primers. Instead of the aforementioned bolt closing issues, I would check assembly of the hammer spring to see if it is oriented correctly first. Incorrect placement of the spring legs will result in half power hammer fall and failure to ignite mil primers. Common mistake by home assemblers.
That being said, if this is a headspace issue then you have a potentially dangerous situation. Remember that you are holding a metal tube up to your face and initiating explosions at thousands of pounds of pressure. Not something to be treated lightly.
Check the chambering, verify correct assembly of your fire control components and then send the rifle to PSA or a gunsmith if headspace is suspected. Not to be insulting but this isn't something a first timer should be fooling with.
BTW, buffer weight and spring rate diagnosis is called for with regular malfunction issues such as bolt over case, double feeds and failure to chamber. Not what he is describing here as a caliber specific malfunction. I am pretty sure this is a FTF related to the hammer spring.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 7:07 am to jbgleason
quote:
BTW, buffer weight and spring rate diagnosis is called for with regular malfunction issues such as bolt over case, double feeds and failure to chamber. Not what he is describing here as a caliber specific malfunction. I am pretty sure this is a FTF related to the hammer spring.
OP said bolt wasn't closing and was a 1/4" from closing. Sounds like a failure to chamber to me. Maybe my reading skills are broken I55 to Jackson needs to be redone, this interstate sucks in Mississippi.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 8:01 am to jbgleason
quote:
FIRST thing OP needs to do is find out how this barrel is chambered. 5.56 and .223 are not the same thing. Without writing a page on info you can get from Google, the 5.56 chamber leade is "longer" which means you can safely shoot .223 in it but not vice versa. Meaning if he has a .223 chambered barrel he can be subject to unsafe pressures when firing 5.56. Someone should have discussed this as soon as he mentioned that he is interchanging rounds.
I noted the exact parts that I ordered in the OP along with the exact ammo I was shooting. It is a 5.56 barrel. I know this is about crossing t's and dotting i's, but I would not have put a 5.56 round through a barrel that wasnt stamped "5.56".
quote:
That being said, if this is a headspace issue then you have a potentially dangerous situation. Remember that you are holding a metal tube up to your face and initiating explosions at thousands of pounds of pressure. Not something to be treated lightly.
Oh yea, definitely. That's why I came here for help and will not fire another round until I can get this problem figured out. I certainly want to be cautious.
quote:
I would check assembly of the hammer spring to see if it is oriented correctly first. Incorrect placement of the spring legs will result in half power hammer fall and failure to ignite mil primers. Common mistake by home assemblers.
I bought the lower completely assembled from PSA so I would hope that they would have the competence to not have this wrong prior to shipping it to a customer.
quote:
Check the chambering, verify correct assembly of your fire control components and then send the rifle to PSA or a gunsmith if headspace is suspected. Not to be insulting but this isn't something a first timer should be fooling with.
No offense taken. I am a nube when it comes to AR's, but Im trying to learn. I called PSA yesterday but it was after hours for their Compliance Dept.
According to many of the responses it seems my problem could be one of these...
-headspace issue which is potentially dangerous and should be taken care of by PSA and/or a gunsmith because of my incompetence (seems like this potential problem should be taken care of/figured out before moving on to anything else. I will call PSA today to discuss)
-misorientated hammer spring
-possibly a new H2 buffer swap (based off of what Clames said)
quote:
Before you chasing your tail with a headspace gauge that will tell you little to nothing, go find another action spring (the misnamed buffer spring) and a H2 buffer to swap in and try 5.56 again. According to PSA you have a standard weight buffer which isn't exactly the best choice for a carbine
Spikes ST-T2 Heavy Buffer If determined to be the problem, I assume this would be the part to upgrade?
Posted on 1/13/15 at 8:37 am to kengel2
Maybe. But what he is saying (bolt not going into battery) and what he is describing (FTF with one caliber) are two different things. For that matter, we might all be thinking too far ahead. What do you think of this?
He might have a lot of misloaded out of spec ammo. Probably first thing would be to get hands on another brand of 5.56 and try that. Unfortunately too common these days (with production at such overtime rates) to hear about out of spec factory ammo. I had five rounds FROM ONE BOX the other day with upside down primers.
I just don't see how people can argue headspace when it is chambering .223 but not 5.56. They are dimensionally identical rounds. I guess it could be bolt bounce and a H2 buffer and / or heavier spring would be the correct treatment for that BUT as a diagnostic procedure that is putting the cart before the horse. Simplest first. Adequate lube, ammo, correct assembly (I have heard of guns coming from some of these places incorrectly assembled), correct gassing (properly aligned gas block/no kinks in tube), buffer/spring, check chamber and lugs for burrs/scratches, etc.
Your simplest diagnostic may be to borrow a buddy's AR and swap your upper onto his and his onto your lower. Then shoot some. That will help you rule out several of the issues brought up here in a couple of mags. As someone pointed out several posts back, some pictures would help.
He might have a lot of misloaded out of spec ammo. Probably first thing would be to get hands on another brand of 5.56 and try that. Unfortunately too common these days (with production at such overtime rates) to hear about out of spec factory ammo. I had five rounds FROM ONE BOX the other day with upside down primers.
I just don't see how people can argue headspace when it is chambering .223 but not 5.56. They are dimensionally identical rounds. I guess it could be bolt bounce and a H2 buffer and / or heavier spring would be the correct treatment for that BUT as a diagnostic procedure that is putting the cart before the horse. Simplest first. Adequate lube, ammo, correct assembly (I have heard of guns coming from some of these places incorrectly assembled), correct gassing (properly aligned gas block/no kinks in tube), buffer/spring, check chamber and lugs for burrs/scratches, etc.
Your simplest diagnostic may be to borrow a buddy's AR and swap your upper onto his and his onto your lower. Then shoot some. That will help you rule out several of the issues brought up here in a couple of mags. As someone pointed out several posts back, some pictures would help.
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