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Started By
Message
re: Reloaders experience with QuickLoad software - worth it?
Posted on 10/19/22 at 4:27 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Posted on 10/19/22 at 4:27 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Is all that really necessary just to achieve good hunting rifle accuracy?
Nope, but that’s why you handload. You have the impression now that unless you thread the needle with the perfect load that it’s gonna shoot basketball sized groups slow, but in reality every load in the manual is gonna shoot about as good as factory ammo would. You could take any load on that page and go kill a deer at half the cost of factory ammo, and then continue to dial it in.
1
Posted on 10/19/22 at 5:43 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
In the south where that majority of all hunting shots are within 300yds, none of that is necessary.
Get you bullet and powder and and load to somewhere around the middle of the specified load data. See how your rifle shoots them and if you’re shooting a 3 shot group of 3” or better , call it good.
Out west or prairie dog hunting would be a different animal though.
Most people that I know that reload are either wanting to shoot a lot more or really dial in their gun and that’s usually for competition.
Get you bullet and powder and and load to somewhere around the middle of the specified load data. See how your rifle shoots them and if you’re shooting a 3 shot group of 3” or better , call it good.
Out west or prairie dog hunting would be a different animal though.
Most people that I know that reload are either wanting to shoot a lot more or really dial in their gun and that’s usually for competition.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 5:55 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
At prices half of today’s, it’s not really a cost savings. It sure as hell ain’t now. If you’re doing this to save money, stop now and cut your losses.
Reloading is one of those diy things that gives satisfaction from doing it yourself, working toward an objective, learning a unique skill, tinkering, and forcing yourself to understand the details of how a system works.
What are you wanting to get out of it, in terms of performance? With a proven rifle, you should be able to develop a 1 moa load with about any recommended powder in 25 rounds. I work up to a max load (from a survey of manuals and online suggestions) with single rounds to verify safety (10 rds), then play with seating depth to find something good enough. For a hunting round, I want it on the hot end.
Reloading is one of those diy things that gives satisfaction from doing it yourself, working toward an objective, learning a unique skill, tinkering, and forcing yourself to understand the details of how a system works.
What are you wanting to get out of it, in terms of performance? With a proven rifle, you should be able to develop a 1 moa load with about any recommended powder in 25 rounds. I work up to a max load (from a survey of manuals and online suggestions) with single rounds to verify safety (10 rds), then play with seating depth to find something good enough. For a hunting round, I want it on the hot end.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 6:30 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Do it 3x and avg it. Again like someone said you’re not shooting f-class and I learned this from Got Blaze. If you can’t trust that dude regarding precision custom rifles and ammo, who can you trust. Eric cortina does it a similar way without glue. He’s f class or prs. Check him out on YouTube.
Also you’re not gonna want your cartridges longer than mag length. Unless you plan on loading one at a time.
For my hunting rounds, I start at mag length minus 0.020.
Also you’re not gonna want your cartridges longer than mag length. Unless you plan on loading one at a time.
For my hunting rounds, I start at mag length minus 0.020.
This post was edited on 10/19/22 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 10/19/22 at 7:03 pm to turkish
quote:
If you’re doing this to save money, stop now and cut your losses
Well it'll be about half price per round vs factory stuff, and I don't have to deal with trying to find it. So it is cheaper unless I have to make a buttload of rounds to see what works
quote:
diy things that gives satisfaction from doing it yourself
Definitely not looking for that. I have enough hobbies. Pure utility.
quote:
What are you wanting to get out of it, in terms of performance?
I'd be plenty happy with 1 MOA. 1.5 would be fine. 10" plate at 500 almost every shot. It is going to go elk hunting every year so I do want it hot enough to perform well but I don't have any interest in hot rodding anything.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 8:35 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I don’t think reloading is for you.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 10:37 pm to turkish
It might not be. I already have everything needed to roll a few calibers so I'm definitely going to give it a go and find out though.
I do plan to tinker a little bit with some cast loads. That seems fun.
I do plan to tinker a little bit with some cast loads. That seems fun.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 10:37 pm to Success
quote:
For my hunting rounds, I start at mag length minus 0.020.
Is your experience that the magazine space is the limiting factor more often than the throat length?
Posted on 10/20/22 at 2:52 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
But, how do you prevent the bullet from slightly pulling out the neck when you pull the bolt open?
Color the entire bullet with a sharpie. If it pulls out, you'll know.
Posted on 10/20/22 at 3:03 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
This is where reloading starts to get very unappealing to me.
Make a BUNCH of loads to find the right seating depth, then a BUNCH of different loads at that depth with different powder charges to find pressure and accuracy... to find out that your rifle doesn't like that powder or bullet. That sounds like a full 8 hour day at the range before I maybe have a good recipe for my rifle?
At $1 per bullet and $50/lb of powder and impossible to get primers, is there really a savings there vs factory ammo? Is all that really necessary just to achieve good hunting rifle accuracy?
You're overly complicating things.
Start with the book OAL for all powder charges.
Start in the middle of the load. If book min is 50gr and max is 55gr, start with 52.5gr.
Load 5 for sighting unless you can do. It in 3.
Next load 3 each at 52.5, 53.0, 53.5, 54.0, 54.5, 55. 0.
Thats 18rds to find a node.
Those groups should all be similar in size.
Find 3 groups that print exactly the same on paper. Not group size, but where on the paper it's shooting. Left high, right low etc. You'll pick the middle of those 3 powder charges and go from there if you'd like.
If the groups are 1moa you're good to go with it. Otherwise tinker with charges and OAL.
This isn't rocket science and quickload is a reference. I had it and it's pretty useless for what I need. It won't tell you where the node is, or save you components etc. The target and the case will tell you what you need to do.
You're paying less than half of the price of a box of ammo once you get what you want.
If 1.5moa is all you need, the above steps will achieve that. If you see extreme spreads in group size, it's the powder or the bullet.
This post was edited on 10/20/22 at 3:11 am
Posted on 10/20/22 at 5:42 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Yes. It’s as simple as this…do you want to single load each round or use your magazine. If you want to use your mag, then chances are you COAL will be too long for your mag.
You can fine tune any load by adjusting the seating depth. Pick a load and play with the seating depth. If you want to use the mag, start at mag length minus .020. If you want to chase the lands, you likely can’t use a mag as it will be too long. If that’s the case, find the jam point or lands and start .020 from there.
You need something constant. Either the charge or the seating depth.
You can fine tune any load by adjusting the seating depth. Pick a load and play with the seating depth. If you want to use the mag, start at mag length minus .020. If you want to chase the lands, you likely can’t use a mag as it will be too long. If that’s the case, find the jam point or lands and start .020 from there.
You need something constant. Either the charge or the seating depth.
Posted on 10/20/22 at 7:05 am to turkish
quote:
I don’t think reloading is for you.
He wants to reload for the same reasons I do it, and it’s definitely for me. Premium hunting ammo is $70-100 a box if you can find it, and hope your gun likes it. I can load the bullet I want shooting MOA for half that. If you shoot a Weatherby or otherwise obscure caliber, handloading might be the only option period right now.
Posted on 10/20/22 at 12:11 pm to saintsfan1977
quote:
Find 3 groups that print exactly the same on paper. Not group size, but where on the paper it's shooting. Left high, right low etc. You'll pick the middle of those 3 powder charges and go from there if you'd like.
Instead of this, I want my groups to be similar speeds. I pick the groups with the lowest s/d. Once I have that I will fine tune grouping by adjusting seating depth.
This post was edited on 10/20/22 at 12:12 pm
Posted on 10/20/22 at 1:06 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
Weatherby or otherwise obscure caliber
It's basically like that for everything not 6.5 creedmoooor or .308 right now. It's getting better, but you still don't have shite for options for other calibers. You have to just buy what you can find and hope your rifle likes it, at $100+ a box.
.338 win mag is like hens teeth right now.
Posted on 10/20/22 at 5:48 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Downshift, I’d agree with the steps SaintsFan1977 posted, that’s a good basic way to get going on load and OAL.
To me there is a significant difference between loading good hunting rounds that will hold a 1 1/2” group at 100 yards compared to loading target loads that hold half a MOA at 1000 yards.
I respect the guys that can do all that it takes to load those precise 1000 yard loads but I have killed lots of animals out to 450 yards with some basically loaded hand loads.
I personally wouldn’t buy QuickLoad, I usually surf hunting forums and find where Mr. Ballistician or someone has posted QL information. I have 5 loading manuals and often access Hodgdon, Hornady, Nosler and Shooters’s Reference website and find all the information I need.
A quick glance at the Hodgdon site shows several powders that would overlap well for 30–06 and .338 Win Mag and 6.5x55 (H414, H4350, IMR4350, H4831, WW760, IMR4064, IMR4895 and others). From my experience there isn’t enough difference when you change primers to notice much difference until you get close to the max charge or above max charge, so just start near mid load range and work up.
Most load books and online load data shows bullet OAL based on what the tester used as a bullet length when they tested the powder charges, it’s usually a good place to start for OAL.
I’ve used resized brass and long seated bullet and closed the chamber to find the lands but now I use a gun cleaning rod with a flat tip plastic patch tool. I close my bolt and put the cleaning rod in till it rest on the bolt face and I use a sharp pencil and mark the rod, then I pull my bolt and drop one of the bullets that I’m loading into the lands and use the cleaning rod to lightly tap it so it holds in the lands, then I turn the rifle up and ease the cleaning rod down till it rests on the bullet, I use a sharp pencil and mark the rod, knock the bullet out and remove rod and use dial calipers to measure the the gap between my two pencil markers. This gives me an OAL with bullet in the lands, I back off that length .100” and start there with my test loads.
To me there is a significant difference between loading good hunting rounds that will hold a 1 1/2” group at 100 yards compared to loading target loads that hold half a MOA at 1000 yards.
I respect the guys that can do all that it takes to load those precise 1000 yard loads but I have killed lots of animals out to 450 yards with some basically loaded hand loads.
I personally wouldn’t buy QuickLoad, I usually surf hunting forums and find where Mr. Ballistician or someone has posted QL information. I have 5 loading manuals and often access Hodgdon, Hornady, Nosler and Shooters’s Reference website and find all the information I need.
A quick glance at the Hodgdon site shows several powders that would overlap well for 30–06 and .338 Win Mag and 6.5x55 (H414, H4350, IMR4350, H4831, WW760, IMR4064, IMR4895 and others). From my experience there isn’t enough difference when you change primers to notice much difference until you get close to the max charge or above max charge, so just start near mid load range and work up.
Most load books and online load data shows bullet OAL based on what the tester used as a bullet length when they tested the powder charges, it’s usually a good place to start for OAL.
I’ve used resized brass and long seated bullet and closed the chamber to find the lands but now I use a gun cleaning rod with a flat tip plastic patch tool. I close my bolt and put the cleaning rod in till it rest on the bolt face and I use a sharp pencil and mark the rod, then I pull my bolt and drop one of the bullets that I’m loading into the lands and use the cleaning rod to lightly tap it so it holds in the lands, then I turn the rifle up and ease the cleaning rod down till it rests on the bullet, I use a sharp pencil and mark the rod, knock the bullet out and remove rod and use dial calipers to measure the the gap between my two pencil markers. This gives me an OAL with bullet in the lands, I back off that length .100” and start there with my test loads.
This post was edited on 10/20/22 at 5:56 pm
Posted on 10/20/22 at 6:05 pm to HighlyFavoredTiger
If any of the length finding methods don’t seem like something you want to use or if you don’t feel safe with them, you can get a Hornady Bullet Comparator set, an overall length gauge and 3 length gauge modified cases for around $100 total, all you’d need to add would be digital or dial indicator which you may already have.
There are good YouTube videos on using the comparator and length gauge.
There are good YouTube videos on using the comparator and length gauge.
Posted on 10/21/22 at 3:08 pm to bbvdd
quote:
Instead of this, I want my groups to be similar speeds. I pick the groups with the lowest s/d. Once I have that I will fine tune grouping by adjusting seating depth.
I do the same but I'm assuming he doesn't have a chrono.
Posted on 10/21/22 at 4:08 pm to saintsfan1977
quote:
assuming he doesn't have a chrono.
I do have one
Posted on 10/21/22 at 4:17 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
I do have one
Awesome. Then it's even easier. Load 10 rounds in 0.2 increments for each round to book max.
Shoot all of them and record the velocity for each. Use the 3 velocities very close to each other towards the max powder charge and go from there.
The flat spot in velocity is the node.
Remember to let the barrel cool between shots so you don't throw velocity off.
Posted on 10/21/22 at 8:36 pm to saintsfan1977
quote:
saintsfan1977
Thanks. I'll give it a go after hunting season. Too late now to start playing with stuff.
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