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Started By
Message
re: Reloaders experience with QuickLoad software - worth it?
Posted on 10/19/22 at 9:28 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Posted on 10/19/22 at 9:28 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I think you should give the old fashioned way a try with stuff that’s easier to get and find what accuracy really means to you. The most accurate load in the book could have been only slightly better than the one below it, and if it’s in the manual then someone got it to shoot good. I think you’ll find that in the meat of the charge range and with the top few powders it’s hard to tell a ton of difference without calipers and a very good trigger finger, really optimized load development is a lot of work for diminishing return but worth it to folks who have the time and interest.
H4831sc will load all you listed, and is in stock right now. With bullets if you can get the weight you want, and the BC reasonably close, then it’s going to perform close. Hornady interlocks are cheap and available, and are going to approximate a partition or other psp reasonably well. Bite the bullet and buy 1000 name brand large rifle primers and be done with that. You will still have to start low when changing things, but you’ll have a much better idea of what good looks like. It seemed like there were a million options to me too but once you start things narrow down pretty quick. You can always buy QL once you’ve figured out what you’re looking at.
H4831sc will load all you listed, and is in stock right now. With bullets if you can get the weight you want, and the BC reasonably close, then it’s going to perform close. Hornady interlocks are cheap and available, and are going to approximate a partition or other psp reasonably well. Bite the bullet and buy 1000 name brand large rifle primers and be done with that. You will still have to start low when changing things, but you’ll have a much better idea of what good looks like. It seemed like there were a million options to me too but once you start things narrow down pretty quick. You can always buy QL once you’ve figured out what you’re looking at.
1
Posted on 10/19/22 at 9:48 am to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
Bite the bullet and buy 1000 name brand large rifle primers and be done with that
Got that covered.
But, when the book load uses a different primer, how do I know the starting load is still a safe starting load? If it calls for remington LRM primers and I have federal LRM primers, do I just use the same starting load and light one off??? That's what I was hoping QL would help with.
Part of my problem is I have Norma brass and there ain't shite out there for that.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 9:49 am to turkish
quote:
this tool, alone, won’t keep you safe.
I realize that.
quote:
How does the tool acknowledge headspace and bullet jump to the lands?
Good question. I would hope that those are inputs you have to enter?
Posted on 10/19/22 at 10:11 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
But, when the book load uses a different primer, how do I know the starting load is still a safe starting load? If it calls for remington LRM primers and I have federal LRM primers, do I just use the same starting load and light one off??? That's what I was hoping QL would help with. Part of my problem is I have Norma brass and there ain't shite out there for that.
The published minimum load is going to be safe with any brand name primer that is the correct size, and any reputable new brass that’s headstamped for the cartridge, that’s why they’re there. What you pay for in both of those is consistency. In many cases the book loads are going to stop well short of any pressure signs and be lawyer proof. I’ve never even noticed that manuals specified brass they used. You’ll see them tell you what barrel they shot out of, same deal, you don’t need a 24” shillen to safely shoot that load but velocity will vary.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 10:15 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
How does the tool acknowledge headspace and bullet jump to the lands? Good question. I would hope that those are inputs you have to enter?
Nope. QL is never gonna be able to tell you for a fact what your chamber looks like. It’s gonna say this is the general data, start low and work up. It’s a massive and interactive collection of manuals, which is awesome, but still the same info at the end of the day that’s a starting point for what’s going to be safe and perform in your gun.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 10:44 am to TheDrunkenTigah
I figured it would account for distance to the lands at least. I think what I was mainly looking for was confirmation that changing a primer or case at a starting load wasn't going to split my rifle open.
I suppose I should get somebody who knows what they're doing to go through my first exercise of "finding pressure"
I suppose I should get somebody who knows what they're doing to go through my first exercise of "finding pressure"
Posted on 10/19/22 at 11:03 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
changing a primer or case at a starting load wasn't going to split my rifle open.
Unless you have a defective chamber, not even close. It’s very popular to use magnum primers in place of regular large rifle in 270 loads to tweak the burn rate and even then the max load isn’t much lower. One of the coolest things about handloading and why it comes up in cartridge pissing matches is you can often times get another 200 fps over the book MAX safely, just gotta know what you’re looking at. Never say never, but people who blow up guns are doing so because they accidentally switched powders or double loaded a case.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 11:31 am to TheDrunkenTigah
The best way to see that you are getting close to higher pressure is by looking at your spent primer.
A flattened primer tells you that pressure is getting high.
That doesn't mean it's too high, just that it's getting there.
On my competition 6.5cm, I can load it and get 140gr up to 2900 fps. The primer is flat there but it's never busted the primer. That same load in my gas gun will blow every single primer that's shot in the gun.
As to double loading a powder charge. Rifle powder charges are pretty much always close to full. A half load is probably more dangerous. I have some loads that call for a "compacted powder" which means that you are pushing the bullet in the case and you are compacting the powder down (just like it sounds).
Any time I've ever double loaded a case, I have powder spilling out everywhere.
The moral of the story is to watch your primers as you're getting up close to max loads.
I am not an expert but I've never seen on any load data that has any in put for headspace or lands.
99% of people out there could not measure the distance to the lands on a gun anyway.
A flattened primer tells you that pressure is getting high.
That doesn't mean it's too high, just that it's getting there.
On my competition 6.5cm, I can load it and get 140gr up to 2900 fps. The primer is flat there but it's never busted the primer. That same load in my gas gun will blow every single primer that's shot in the gun.
As to double loading a powder charge. Rifle powder charges are pretty much always close to full. A half load is probably more dangerous. I have some loads that call for a "compacted powder" which means that you are pushing the bullet in the case and you are compacting the powder down (just like it sounds).
Any time I've ever double loaded a case, I have powder spilling out everywhere.
The moral of the story is to watch your primers as you're getting up close to max loads.
I am not an expert but I've never seen on any load data that has any in put for headspace or lands.
99% of people out there could not measure the distance to the lands on a gun anyway.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 11:57 am to bbvdd
quote:
The best way to see that you are getting close to higher pressure is by looking at your spent primer.
I've probably seen every picture on the internet educating myself on what to look for. It also seems that bolt lift is a good indicator, and that I'll definitely know it the first time I have it.
I think yall have talked me out of it, at least for now. I have enough stuff already to do what I need to do as long as brass or primer brand changes are still safe with starting loads.
quote:
never seen on any load data that has any in put for headspace or lands.
99% of people out there could not measure the distance to the lands on a gun anyway.
Been struggling with how I am going to accurately find the lands on my rifle without buying anything to do it. My thought was to sacrifice a case and bullet, put some epoxy or loctite in the case neck, stain the bullet jacket, and very gently close the bolt on an obviously too long cartridge. Hopefully that's longer than the mag length allows and ill just seat them to fit and feed reliably, which should be at least as long or a little longer than book length and therefore safe.
Sound good to you experience guys?
Posted on 10/19/22 at 12:25 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Easiest way…take a sized brass. Use a dremel and cut it across the top. Make sure a bullet will slide back and forth slightly. Now seat the cartridge. Eject it. Measure it.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 12:40 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
The way that I was taught to do is to remove the firing pin from your bolt.
Put a bullet too long for the case in the gun and see if it fits.
If the bolt won't close it doesn't fit. Carefully seat the bullet lower until the bolt closes.
ETA:
wanted to address this. When you have a sticky bolt, you are getting very close to blown primers and if you're using normal primers, you're probably blow out a few.
I say this because I use Small Mag Primers on my 6.5 CM. Mag primers are a little thicker metal.
Put a bullet too long for the case in the gun and see if it fits.
If the bolt won't close it doesn't fit. Carefully seat the bullet lower until the bolt closes.
ETA:
quote:
it also seems that bolt lift is a good indicator, and that I'll definitely know it the first time I have it.
wanted to address this. When you have a sticky bolt, you are getting very close to blown primers and if you're using normal primers, you're probably blow out a few.
I say this because I use Small Mag Primers on my 6.5 CM. Mag primers are a little thicker metal.
This post was edited on 10/19/22 at 12:53 pm
Posted on 10/19/22 at 12:45 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
My thought was to sacrifice a case and bullet, put some epoxy or loctite in the case neck, stain the bullet jacket, and very gently close the bolt on an obviously too long cartridge.
It’s basically this. Put blue loctite on the case mouth, barely seat the bullet and then chamber it. Leave the bolt. Closed for 20 mins so the loctite can set, remove carefully and measure.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 1:43 pm to Success
quote:
Easiest way…take a sized brass. Use a dremel and cut it across the top.
with the dremel tool method, you only use (waste) 1 piece of brass.
Every time you change bullet brand and weights, you use the same piece of brass to measure COAL and seating depth to lands.
If using the super glue, you waste a bullet and piece of brass every time you experiment with new bullets.
Also when the barrel has been fired 200, 400, 600, 1000+ times the seating depth will get longer due to throat erosion.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 2:01 pm to Got Blaze
Bullet doesn't get stuck in the barrel or pull itself out some when you do that?
Posted on 10/19/22 at 2:20 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
In my experience, yes, it does. Even if it doesn’t get stuck, I worry that the bullet will pull out slightly, invalidating the test.
My method is to use a sized and unprimed case, seat the bullet long, and progressively seat deeper until the bolt will close. Downside: This finds the max head to ogive length, which is actually a little longer than the length at which the bullet “kisses” the lands. To find the kiss, you must paint the bullet and inspect closely for smudges caused by engaging the rifling. It takes some time and effort. I do recommend a bullet comparator of your choosing my… I like the Hornady set.
Of importance on this topic: depending on your rifles chamber, bullet selection, and magazine length, you may not be able to load ammo that is anywhere close to the lands, making all this moot. I’m looking at you, Tikka.
My method is to use a sized and unprimed case, seat the bullet long, and progressively seat deeper until the bolt will close. Downside: This finds the max head to ogive length, which is actually a little longer than the length at which the bullet “kisses” the lands. To find the kiss, you must paint the bullet and inspect closely for smudges caused by engaging the rifling. It takes some time and effort. I do recommend a bullet comparator of your choosing my… I like the Hornady set.
Of importance on this topic: depending on your rifles chamber, bullet selection, and magazine length, you may not be able to load ammo that is anywhere close to the lands, making all this moot. I’m looking at you, Tikka.
This post was edited on 10/19/22 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 10/19/22 at 2:27 pm to turkish
quote:
may not be able to load ammo that is anywhere close to the lands
I have noticed that Lapua 6.5x55 155gr mega is loaded MUCH shorter than most swede ammo. Even being 155gr, it's wayyyy shorter than 139gr PPU. Still shoots great. I guess it's very concentric and therfore doesn't mind having a longer jump? It's kinda more blunt and I know that matters a lot, but it's WAY short.
Either way, it makes me not really care about kissing the lands or anything like that. I'm not worried about scores at 1000 yards. I just want to hit a 10" plate at 500 yards and in every shot. I figure I'll just make sure that length is longer than the mag allows, and then just load however long will fit and feed reliably.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 3:21 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
seating depth can make a pretty big difference on some ammo.
Berger bullets tells you that you need to do a seating test 1st think when starting a new load.
I did that and it was from a 3" group at 100 yds for the widest group to a .3" group on the tightest.
Berger bullets tells you that you need to do a seating test 1st think when starting a new load.
I did that and it was from a 3" group at 100 yds for the widest group to a .3" group on the tightest.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 3:28 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
If you force it closed and the throat is tight it could. Just use a cleaning rod and tap it out. Rarely happens
Posted on 10/19/22 at 3:52 pm to Success
But, how do you prevent the bullet from slightly pulling out the neck when you pull the bolt open?
I think I'm going to use glue or something the first time just to convince myself it's right, and then check that vs your way a few times to see if I really trust it or not. I'm cool with giving up a few pieces at first.
I think I'm going to use glue or something the first time just to convince myself it's right, and then check that vs your way a few times to see if I really trust it or not. I'm cool with giving up a few pieces at first.
Posted on 10/19/22 at 3:57 pm to bbvdd
This is where reloading starts to get very unappealing to me.
Make a BUNCH of loads to find the right seating depth, then a BUNCH of different loads at that depth with different powder charges to find pressure and accuracy... to find out that your rifle doesn't like that powder or bullet. That sounds like a full 8 hour day at the range before I maybe have a good recipe for my rifle?
At $1 per bullet and $50/lb of powder and impossible to get primers, is there really a savings there vs factory ammo? Is all that really necessary just to achieve good hunting rifle accuracy?
Does quickload help skip some of those steps?
Make a BUNCH of loads to find the right seating depth, then a BUNCH of different loads at that depth with different powder charges to find pressure and accuracy... to find out that your rifle doesn't like that powder or bullet. That sounds like a full 8 hour day at the range before I maybe have a good recipe for my rifle?
At $1 per bullet and $50/lb of powder and impossible to get primers, is there really a savings there vs factory ammo? Is all that really necessary just to achieve good hunting rifle accuracy?
Does quickload help skip some of those steps?
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