- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
PSA: Gun Trust Settlors/Trustees
Posted on 1/7/16 at 4:45 pm
Posted on 1/7/16 at 4:45 pm
If any of yall haven't heard, the ATF released its final 41-P ruling. You can find a copy here.
The long and the short of it is that from effect forward (sometime in July probably), if you are a responsible party in a trust, you will have to submit fingerprints, personal information, and a photo to the ATF/FBI to conduct a background check prior to buying a Class 3/NFA item.
Fortunately, they eliminated the chief law enforcement officer signature requirement, but purchasers and responsible persons under the trust will still have to provide the CLEO with notice of the purchase, and submit paperwork to the CLEO.
Like I said, the change doesn't go into effect until sometime probably in July or early August, and it won't affect pending Form 4 applications. So, if you're a trustee or a settlor, get your Form 4's in ASAP. I hate to encourage panic buying because it drives me insane, but the unfortunate reality of 41-P is that it will make it even more of a hassle to get Class 3/Form 4 stuff for trustees and settlors, so get it taken care of before it goes into effect.
eta: This is not intended to be legal advice...just helpful info for folks with trusts.
The long and the short of it is that from effect forward (sometime in July probably), if you are a responsible party in a trust, you will have to submit fingerprints, personal information, and a photo to the ATF/FBI to conduct a background check prior to buying a Class 3/NFA item.
Fortunately, they eliminated the chief law enforcement officer signature requirement, but purchasers and responsible persons under the trust will still have to provide the CLEO with notice of the purchase, and submit paperwork to the CLEO.
Like I said, the change doesn't go into effect until sometime probably in July or early August, and it won't affect pending Form 4 applications. So, if you're a trustee or a settlor, get your Form 4's in ASAP. I hate to encourage panic buying because it drives me insane, but the unfortunate reality of 41-P is that it will make it even more of a hassle to get Class 3/Form 4 stuff for trustees and settlors, so get it taken care of before it goes into effect.
eta: This is not intended to be legal advice...just helpful info for folks with trusts.
This post was edited on 1/7/16 at 4:48 pm
3
Posted on 1/7/16 at 6:49 pm to bluemoons
Ordering next week.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 6:57 pm to bluemoons
I dont really understand how all this stuff works with Class 3/NFA items, but if I want something like a supressor, the only way, or easiest way is the trust route? If I havent started application is it too late to get everything done by July?
Posted on 1/7/16 at 6:58 pm to bluemoons
quote:
but the unfortunate reality of 41-P is that it will make it even more of a hassle to get Class 3/Form 4 stuff for trustees and settlors, so get it taken care of before it goes into effect.
how so?
It seems like eliminating the CLEO signature removes a big hurdle. I can see an overzealous sheriff causing trouble.
Posted on 1/7/16 at 7:13 pm to diat150
quote:
It seems like eliminating the CLEO signature removes a big hurdle. I can see an overzealous sheriff causing trouble.
Yep and even in Louisiana some sheriffs won't sign off. The main thing I'd like is what is the process for notifying the ClEO? If it involves just sending in a letter thats one thing BUT if we are required to receive confirmation from the CLEO, we could be facing a time hassle of epic proportions.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 9:03 am to Theboot32
quote:
I dont really understand how all this stuff works with Class 3/NFA items, but if I want something like a supressor, the only way, or easiest way is the trust route? If I havent started application is it too late to get everything done by July?
A trust is NOT the only way, and any attorney who tells you that is lying to you because he wants your money. That being said, it is the easiest and best way, and it will remain so even after 41-P.
It's not too soon. Most competent trust attorneys can have your trust ready to sign within a couple of days. You then take the document to your Class 3 dealer, fill out your form 4, pay the tax stamp, and send it off. 41-P's enactment won't affecting pending form 4's.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 9:04 am to diat150
quote:
how so?
It seems like eliminating the CLEO signature removes a big hurdle. I can see an overzealous sheriff causing trouble.
No doubt, but it makes it more of a hassle because now, all the responsible parties in a trust (trustees and settlors) have to prove to the CLEO that they are not a prohibited party under the NFA, and in doing so, they have to be fingerprinted and send in "notice" to the sheriff. From a political standpoint, you can bet that every settlor/trustee was already getting checked. All this does is put that on the face of the law and add a fingerprinting requirement.
It was a win for us to have the CLEO signature requirement removed, because as you said, overzealous sheriffs can be a major PITA, and if you have a sheriff who has some personal issue with you, you're screwed.
quote:
Yep and even in Louisiana some sheriffs won't sign off. The main thing I'd like is what is the process for notifying the ClEO? If it involves just sending in a letter thats one thing BUT if we are required to receive confirmation from the CLEO, we could be facing a time hassle of epic proportions.
I've read through the entire final ruling. It seems to me that all that's required is sending notification to the CLEO that you are filling out a Form 4/1. It doesn't seem to be anything more than that.
This post was edited on 1/8/16 at 9:14 am
Posted on 1/8/16 at 9:40 am to bluemoons
My wife is an attorney, so she can probably hook that part up. How much does all this cost?
Posted on 1/8/16 at 9:42 am to Theboot32
Just because she is an attorney doesn't mean its a good idea to get her to write up a trust for you. Can get you in serious trouble if it is written wrong.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 9:46 am to civiltiger07
Well obviously I'll make sure she knows what she's doing, or someone at her firm does, 99% of the shite they write is a firm template with the blanks filled in.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 9:50 am to Theboot32
quote:
My wife is an attorney
Real subtle...
It's only $300. Papercut ninja here does them. I was happy with him. Would recommend.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 9:52 am to DownSouthDave
quote:
It's only $300.
$300 for the trust to be set up or for the tax stamp? or is that all the same cost?
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:03 am to Theboot32
$300.00 to set the trust up. The tax stamp is $200.00.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:10 am to jdavid1
Just for clarification, do we have to have everyone do the whole fingerprint thing every time we purchase a class 3 item or is it a 1 time thing?
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:10 am to jdavid1
Right. Each item you buy will be a $200 tax. The $300 is a one time cost. Amending it is free.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:22 am to Theboot32
quote:
Well obviously I'll make sure she knows what she's doing, or someone at her firm does, 99% of the shite they write is a firm template with the blanks filled in.
Make sure that whatever attorney you do use has at least some experience with NFA trusts. Living trusts are very complicated documents in and of themselves, and when you add the required NFA stuff it becomes even hairier.
Again, none of this is legal advice. I'm also an attorney, but I'm not your attorney.
This post was edited on 1/8/16 at 10:24 am
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:23 am to DownSouthDave
quote:
Right. Each item you buy will be a $200 tax. The $300 is a one time cost. Amending it is free.
$300 is the rate that I see most often. Some attorneys charge a little more and do amendments for free.
quote:
Just for clarification, do we have to have everyone do the whole fingerprint thing every time we purchase a class 3 item or is it a 1 time thing?
From what I understand, every time you fill out a Form 4 or 1, the responsible parties will have to send in fingerprints, CLEO notices, and personal info to pass the background check.
This post was edited on 1/8/16 at 10:30 am
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:44 am to bluemoons
quote:
From what I understand, every time you fill out a Form 4 or 1, the responsible parties will have to send in fingerprints, CLEO notices, and personal info to pass the background check.
I believe this is incorrect. I believe you have to do the fingerprints every two years unless something changes on your trust. When you buy another item you just have to certify that nothing has changed.
That said, I would greatly appreciate a recommendation for a Louisiana attorney with experience setting these up.
Posted on 1/8/16 at 10:46 am to uway
quote:
That said, I would greatly appreciate a recommendation for a Louisiana attorney with experience setting these up.
@Bluemoons
Posted on 1/8/16 at 11:20 am to uway
This post was edited on 9/28/22 at 3:32 pm
Page 1 of 2
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News