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re: Our disappearing wetlands

Posted on 12/13/12 at 11:30 pm to
Posted by TJG210
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2006
28340 posts
Posted on 12/13/12 at 11:30 pm to
It's always upsetting to make that first fishing trip of the spring and on the way out to the islands notice all of the land that isn't there the last time you were out there.

One thing that always burns me up is that it seems like money is always being allocated to do these erosion/project studies, but seems like nothing ever gets done. The money goes into a black hole and our coast continues to disappear. Another problem is that politicians have too many groups to please, and as soon as a plan is about to get started someone wants to sue.
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 12/13/12 at 11:38 pm to
quote:

If not reversible - can it be slowed or even halted?

You were right in the OP, it's all about sediment delivery.

Humans have chosen to live in a geologically dynamic environment. When they first got to this continent, this 'land' wasn't even here - it's all brand new, geologically speaking.

We were making sedimentary rock down here for a while which takes thin layers of sediment (sand, silt and clay) to be layed down regularly - like with spring floods. Then we cut off the sediment supply. Now the sediments previously laid down compact under their own weight.

In order to at least maintain current land levels, at least as much sediment would be required as would fill the area lost due to the compaction. This sediment would arrive in a slurry - otherwise known as a flood.

The culture we've developed generally trys to avoid being in floodways, and that so many have built homes on heavy concrete slabs at grade tells us that those sediment delivery systems would be undesireable. Ironic because the very areas that need the sediment the most are those that have heavy slabs sitting on compacting soils.

One more irony, levees. Many of the coastal communities build ring levees around their towns and pump the water out. This has the effect of de-watering the soils. Part of the subsidence, or soil compaction process, is having the weight of the soils squeeze out water. Dewatering the soils speeds up this process, and subsidence rates are greater within ring levees. If you look at an elevation map of south Louisiana, you can see all the towns surrounded by levees appear as depressions in the landscape.

To maintian our level of development down here would require far more planning and organization than we are prepared to dedicate. Eventually insurance will become unavailable, and people will begin to move out - except for those few who learn to adapt. Living in such a dynamic environment has its benefits, especially in a subtropical climate, diverse biology being one.
Posted by GREENHEAD22
Member since Nov 2009
19595 posts
Posted on 12/13/12 at 11:44 pm to
1. Expand the state waters to the same mile as the rest of the gulf coast states, use the new $ to help with restoration.

2. Blow all the levees south of BC and open the spillway every time the river is high enough.

3. Force O&G companies to bring in fill and close up canals no longer being used or needed.


Of course known of this will happen but it would be a good start.
Posted by Cracker
in a box
Member since Nov 2009
17700 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 12:29 am to
while your swilling all that DU beer what have they done? have you asked them?
This post was edited on 12/14/12 at 12:30 am
Posted by GREENHEAD22
Member since Nov 2009
19595 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 1:14 am to
Invest in the state gov to make sure they continue to allow the use of ice melters.
Posted by JasonL79
Member since Jan 2010
6397 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 8:38 am to
quote:

the river doesn't have a fraction of the sediments it used to have before all of the dams were built along it and it's major tributaries.


This is true but the river still has a lot of sediment to build new land. I have seen it done south of Venice but the problem is that the land is dissappearing faster than it can rebuild. There has been a lot of new land created at the Atchafalaya Delta also. There just needs to be created a way to harness the river's sediment and to get it to other places. Most of the river's sediment goes out into the gulf off of the continental shelf. There also needs to be a way for these northern states to allow more sediment to come down here through the dams.

Don't get me started on studies either. It's one of the biggest wastes of money there is for the most part. With all of the money wasted on studies over the years, they could have started many projects. Even if the projects don't work, at least they could get actual proof and not theoretical proof. For example, they have been debating closing the west bay diversion south of Venice for years because they said it hasn't been working. My uncle kept telling them it was working. When it started out, there was 4-6ft of water in the bay. Now it's way shallower than that and some land was even created because of it. It's a small step but it's something. There needs to be tons more projects done like this throughout the state. My uncle's story is in the link below. John Snell did a few stories on him on fox 8.

West Bay Diversion Story

Posted by Vol Fan in the Bayou
Member since Nov 2009
4158 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 8:39 am to
quote:

while your swilling all that DU beer what have they done? have you asked them?



No. I don't belong to DU. Don't get me started on DU. If I did then I would be hijacking my own thread.
Posted by TJG210
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2006
28340 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 9:13 am to
quote:

With all of the money wasted on studies over the years, they could have started many projects.


Why doesn't the public demand this shite to stop? It's ridiculous, I really wish people would start paying attention to what is going on around them. The money they are wasting is absolutely criminal.
Posted by nhassl1
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2008
1932 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 9:24 am to
quote:

Our disappearing wetlands
quote:
I could write pages on this



I did... MS river sediment loads and transport characteristics was my masters report topic. The feds don't have/won't spend the money per their agreements for beneficial use of dredged sediment. Getting them to honor our nationally mandated coastal use program would be a good start.
Posted by meauxjeaux2
watson
Member since Oct 2007
60283 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 9:29 am to
quote:

It's always upsetting to make that first fishing trip of the spring and on the way out to the islands notice all of the land that isn't there the last time you were out there.
You should try being in the mapping business like I am.
I'm always doing historical photography research,sometimes all the way back to the 30's.
It will almost make you cry seeing how much things have changed in our marshes in the last decade there in those photos.
Posted by PapaPogey
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2008
39501 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 9:34 am to
We should all just trade in our boats for surface drives now.
Posted by upgrade
Member since Jul 2011
13025 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 9:37 am to
quote:

There has been a lot of new land created at the Atchafalaya Delta


The Red River carries twice the sediment as the Miss. The Miss carries twice the water as the Red. Almost all of the Red Rivers water goes into the Atchafalaya, ( which realy is just the RR after the control structure), except for during spring flooding.
Posted by JasonL79
Member since Jan 2010
6397 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 9:47 am to
quote:

The Red River carries twice the sediment as the Miss.


Do you have a link for this? I'm sure it is possible. I just haven't read this before.
Posted by nhassl1
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2008
1932 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 9:52 am to
That's incorrect. I can provide links and papers to dispute. The sediment split is approximately 80/20 in favor of the MS.

Look up Mead Allison and nitroeuer(sp?) they have done extensive modeling and sediment surveys to prove loads, carrying capacities, entrainment velocities, and more.
This post was edited on 12/14/12 at 9:55 am
Posted by Pectus
Internet
Member since Apr 2010
67302 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 9:54 am to
Just let the Mississippi avulse and travel down the Atchafalya and keep dredging the old channel to make New Orleans a port. Dump dreged materials out in the wet lands?

The lonshore currents are going to move new delta sediments westward anyway. So it's futile to build the coast in the east.
Maybe if they put longshore breaking structures then they could accumulate
sediment adding to the coast.

The real culprit here is sea level rise from the last glacial period. Coasts are dynamic and are impacted the most from these events. the
This post was edited on 12/14/12 at 9:57 am
Posted by upgrade
Member since Jul 2011
13025 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 9:58 am to
quote:

Just let the Mississippi avulse and travel down the Atchafalya and keep dredging the old channel to make New Orleans a port


There's an arse ton more port on the river that would need dreging than New Orleans.
Posted by upgrade
Member since Jul 2011
13025 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 10:01 am to
quote:

JasonL79


I have no link.
I read that on some site a couple years ago.
Posted by PapaPogey
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2008
39501 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 10:02 am to
quote:

That's incorrect. I can provide links and papers to dispute. The sediment split is approximately 80/20 in favor of the MS.


MS River dumps 550 million tons of sediment into the GOM every year.
Posted by JasonL79
Member since Jan 2010
6397 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 10:19 am to
quote:

MS River dumps 550 million tons of sediment into the GOM every year.


I wonder how many acres this could translate into? I know we couldn't get all of it but even a fraction of that would be nice.
Posted by JasonL79
Member since Jan 2010
6397 posts
Posted on 12/14/12 at 10:22 am to
quote:

feds don't have/won't spend the money per their agreements for beneficial use of dredged sediment.


There is no doubt dredging is the quickest and most effective way to create land. There needs to be new ways to do this and with it not being so expensive.

Land that has be created around Venice from dredging has an incredible impact on the wildlife. About 5+ years after the land is dredged, you have trees growing, tons of rabbits, deer, hogs, and it's a good habitat for geese and ducks.
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