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Started By
Message
re: OB, I need advice on this reloading kit
Posted on 2/20/17 at 5:08 pm to bapple
Posted on 2/20/17 at 5:08 pm to bapple
I have a Lee universal decapping die. The pin has never broken. It will decap both pistol and rifle calibers.
RCBS dies do look better than Lee dies. The finish is much better. The lock rings can be changed out so it holds but lee uses a rubber seal to help center the die. They hold as long as you turn the lock ring and not the die.
The Lee seating die doesn't crimp so I don't see how it shaves brass. Lee has a factory crimp die for that.
The Rcbs hand primer is not superior. They both prime the case the same way. The cost of all the shell holders for the Lee primer is $15. The hand primer is $35. So both hand primers are $50. Pick the color you like or get the cheapest lee primer and prime for less. My classic cast has a built-in primer.
The best dies without question are Redding but you pay for it. I'm not interested in the looks of my dies. I have all Lee dies and no problems with them. The neck sizing die is great. The full length die does what I expect it to do.
You can spend more on Rcbs if you want but you will never see more accuracy in your handloads over Lee.
The OP is getting almost an entire setup for a little more than $100. He can upgrade later.
RCBS dies do look better than Lee dies. The finish is much better. The lock rings can be changed out so it holds but lee uses a rubber seal to help center the die. They hold as long as you turn the lock ring and not the die.
The Lee seating die doesn't crimp so I don't see how it shaves brass. Lee has a factory crimp die for that.
The Rcbs hand primer is not superior. They both prime the case the same way. The cost of all the shell holders for the Lee primer is $15. The hand primer is $35. So both hand primers are $50. Pick the color you like or get the cheapest lee primer and prime for less. My classic cast has a built-in primer.
The best dies without question are Redding but you pay for it. I'm not interested in the looks of my dies. I have all Lee dies and no problems with them. The neck sizing die is great. The full length die does what I expect it to do.
You can spend more on Rcbs if you want but you will never see more accuracy in your handloads over Lee.
The OP is getting almost an entire setup for a little more than $100. He can upgrade later.
2
Posted on 2/20/17 at 5:36 pm to saintsfan1977
Does everyone just absolutely hate the hornady classic set or what? Just surprised to not have seen that thrown out as an option
Posted on 2/20/17 at 8:38 pm to saintsfan1977
quote:
I have a Lee universal decapping die. The pin has never broken. It will decap both pistol and rifle calibers.
I imagine that would be the same case for any universal decapping die. I'm referring to resizing dies with a decapping rod. The RCBS design is better since you can change out the decapping pin without having to replace the entire rod. With the Lee dies, the decapping pin is integral to the rod and must be swapped out together.
quote:
The lock rings can be changed out so it holds but lee uses a rubber seal to help center the die. They hold as long as you turn the lock ring and not the die.
But if you rotate on the die by accident you completely lose your spot and have to spend time getting it back to that spot. The tiny set screw completely prevents this and is a better design.
quote:
The cost of all the shell holders for the Lee primer is $15. The hand primer is $35. So both hand primers are $50.
The RCBS hand primer is a one-time cost whereas the Lee primer is $15 per cartridge you choose to load. So if you want to load 9mm, 40, and 45, the Lee will be $35 plus $45 in shell holders. The RCBS will stay at $50.
quote:
The best dies without question are Redding but you pay for it.
I haven't used them but this is the word on the street from many sources.
quote:
I'm not interested in the looks of my dies.
Me neither. I'm only comparing the design between RCBS and Lee, not the aesthetics.
quote:
I have all Lee dies and no problems with them.
quote:
You can spend more on Rcbs if you want but you will never see more accuracy in your handloads over Lee.
I agree and stated that Lee dies will work just fine but that RCBS dies are a better design and are more user friendly. I imagine the accuracy difference would be a wash.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 8:50 pm to Timmayy
quote:
Does everyone just absolutely hate the hornady classic set or what
No but it $340. Any Lee set will be much cheaper and do the exact same job. The Hornady powder measure might be better than the Lee as well as the scale. I bought everything separate. I didnt buy a kit but I still have mainly Lee stuff for the meat and potatoes of my reloading. The odds and ends are Wilson, Redding, Hornady, and RCBS. I have the Hornady bullet comparators and the headspace gauges.
I looked at all the powder measures and found that the few that are really accurate cost $200+. I bought a Redding powder trickler (because its the heaviest) so I didnit need extreme accuracy in my powder measure. The Lee one is $25. I got it to throw IMR4350 exactly on the number 20 times consecutively and didnt have to trickle powder. That was worth the $25. It is a pain to get it to do that consistently though but I dont mind it.
People say Lee is junk/cheap/ wont last, but it works and the customer service is outstanding. The OP could take his solid aluminum press the day he gets it, stick it in a vice and break it in half and Lee will give him a new one at no cost. If he has trouble with anything, all he has to do is call and one of the guys will tell him how to solve any problem he has. Why spend more when this works? Im making accurate ammunition with the cheap Lee stuff so I dont need to spend more money because it looks "better".
Posted on 2/20/17 at 9:49 pm to DeoreDX
DeoreDX,
Good point about priming w/ the press. I used to use the press to prime when I was loading large #'s of handgun ammo, but now a days I exclusively use the Lee Auto Prime (hand primer). Most folks tend to thing using a hand primer gives the loader more control over seating the primer. As far as the OP's original kit, the pic shows a Lee Auto Prime hand tool to the the left of the press (round top instead of the square topped Auto Primer XR on your kit), but the description doesn't list the Auto Prime in the equipment.
quote:
I had decided on the kit with the hand primer v. the kit you list which primes on the press. People seemed to think the hand primer worked easier than the press mounted primer.
Good point about priming w/ the press. I used to use the press to prime when I was loading large #'s of handgun ammo, but now a days I exclusively use the Lee Auto Prime (hand primer). Most folks tend to thing using a hand primer gives the loader more control over seating the primer. As far as the OP's original kit, the pic shows a Lee Auto Prime hand tool to the the left of the press (round top instead of the square topped Auto Primer XR on your kit), but the description doesn't list the Auto Prime in the equipment.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 9:51 pm to saintsfan1977
quote:
do I need a digital caliper?
You need a caliper,digital or manual makes no difference. A cheap one will work
Get a $10 digital 6" micrometer from Freight Harbor. I've had mine >20 years and it works fine.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 10:06 pm to bapple
quote:
But regardless of presses, I can tell you without hesitation that RCBS makes a better die set.
I own prob in excess of 30 sets of handloading dies. I've got dies made by Hornady, Lee, RCBS, Forster and Redding; I don't have Lyman dies. Most of my dies say "Lee" on them. I've been very pleased w/ them. I routinely load rifle ammo that's sub-MOA w/ all the different brands, including Lee. Admittedly, Lee dies aren't as nice looking as the others, but I have no qualms buying and using Lee dies. Nevertheless, w/o a doubt I think the highest quality dies I've bought have been made by Redding; many of them are more specialized dies (e.g. micrometer neck diameter dimensions), have a more refined appearance and are more expensive.
quote:I'm not sure what these problems are, but I've not experienced them w/ any of my dies.
RCBS's expanding die is also easier to use since it's not a thru-die where the collar chases the case and you have to slam the rod down to get the shell off of it. I've also found that RCBS seating dies don't start to shave brass off the top of the cases if you decide to give it a slightly tighter crimp, whereas I've noticed this with Lee dies.
quote:True, the RCBS tool doesn't require the shell holder set like the Lee, but the RCBS is usually a little more expensive, about the same expense as the shell holders. For me, it's a wash.
And as another aside, the RCBS Universal Priming Tool is superior to the Lee Priming Tool since you don't have to purchase a flat shell holder for every cartridge you choose to load.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 10:11 pm to Timmayy
quote:
Does everyone just absolutely hate the hornady classic set or what? Just surprised to not have seen that thrown out as an option
I don't have any personal experience w/ Hornady reloading presses; Hornady wasn't making presses when I bought my only press (Lee Classic Turret) >30 years ago. Having said that, I do NOT like the configuration of the depriming pin on their resizing dies. When given the choice, Hornady is my last choice for handloading dies.
Posted on 2/20/17 at 10:19 pm to bapple
quote:
quote:
The cost of all the shell holders for the Lee primer is $15. The hand primer is $35. So both hand primers are $50.
The RCBS hand primer is a one-time cost whereas the Lee primer is $15 per cartridge you choose to load. So if you want to load 9mm, 40, and 45, the Lee will be $35 plus $45 in shell holders. The RCBS will stay at $50.
Actually bapple, the individual Lee shell holders for their priming tool only cost $3-4 apiece. OTOH, one can buy the Lee shell holder kit of 11 shell holders for only $15 total.
quote:
I'm referring to resizing dies with a decapping rod. The RCBS design is better since you can change out the decapping pin without having to replace the entire rod. With the Lee dies, the decapping pin is integral to the rod and must be swapped out together.
The Lee depriming spindle and pin are designed differently from others so that it's very rare to break the Lee depriming pin.
Posted on 2/21/17 at 12:01 am to bapple
quote:
I imagine that would be the same case for any universal decapping die. I'm referring to resizing dies with a decapping rod. The RCBS design is better since you can change out the decapping pin without having to replace the entire rod. With the Lee dies, the decapping pin is integral to the rod and must be swapped out together.
Agreed. The only advantage is with RCBS you can still size the case without the deprimer.
quote:
The RCBS hand primer is a one-time cost whereas the Lee primer is $15 per cartridge you choose to load. So if you want to load 9mm, 40, and 45, the Lee will be $35 plus $45 in shell holders. The RCBS will stay at $50.
Negative. $15 gets you every shell holder you could possibly need for the hand primer. Its a set. I used the Lee ergo primer which is $35, but if you went with the $20 hand primer you are back at $35 which is still cheaper than the Rcbs
Posted on 2/24/17 at 10:08 am to boatless2
boatless, I'm going to resurrect your thread b/c I never actually addressed the kits you were looking at. There's nothing wrong w/ either one of them. If you can spend the extra money, I'd get the turret press instead of the Challenger. The turret press can be set up as either a single stage (most of what I do now) or a semi-progressive press (useful feature if you some day handload high volumes for handguns). The balance beam scale's old technology, but I still use mine a lot, even though I have an entry level electronic scale. I read good and bad comments about the Lee powder charger just like I do w/ nearly every powder charger. I used to use Lee sizing cream. It's serviceable, but I like Imperial Sizing die wax and case neck lubricant better.
The only piece of Lee equipment that disappointed me some was the "Disc Measure." It's about as accurate as most inexpensive ones, but makes a mess when used w/ small, spherical powders. I prefer the $5 Lee case cutter and Lee case length gauge (you have to buy a different one for each caliber you load for) over my $80 Redding lathe trimmer.
1. Buy a Universal Decapping and Depriming Die (costs about $10). Mine saved me on the opening weekend of deer season one year when the depriming pin on my 308 Win broke before I'd finished loading some hunting rounds. This leads me to #2.
2. Buy extra depriming pins. They don't break often, but when they do it's always at the worst time.
3. Once you figure out the basic powders you're going to use (you'll probably burn through a lot of 1# cans in the process), buy some 4-8# kegs of your preferred powders. Even w/ the $29 hazardous shipping fee you can still save $$$ buying powder and primers online in large quantities if they're not available locally.
4. Repeat #3 by buying 1000/carton of your preferred primers. I keep my brands/types of primers to a minimum.
5. I like to use the Lee Case Length Gauge (put it in a power drill) to trim brass to the correct length. Much cheaper and faster than a lathe type trimmer. The kits you're looking at come w/ the cutter and shell holder. You'll just need to buy a separate case length gauge for each caliber.
6. The customer service I've experienced from the different manufacturers has been good, but I've been especially impressed w/ Redding's.
7. If you're manually weighing each charge, buy a powder trickler. If not loading a large # of rounds at one time, I still use my manual powder scale.
8. Buy the case and shell holder set (again, mine's Lee). Much less expensive to buy the complete set than to buy them individually.
9. When loading for multiple calibers in one session, only keep ONE can of powder on your bench. I've always had this rule, but managed to accidentally break it last year. It didn't harm me any, but I managed to mix 2 types of powder into a single can. One of the cans was brand new and cost $50/1#.
10. Case prep tools are optional, but IMHO will improve accuracy some. All my case prep tools are manual. The Sinclair primer pocket uniformer is really good and can replace the primer pocket cleaner. The tool can be used to uniform the primer pockets (a step to enhance accuracy) as well as cleaning the primer pocket. Chuck it in your power drill and save some time. I also use a Sinclair flash hole deburring tool to improve accuracy.
11. The Lee powder measure kit is VERY handy.
12. Have available, and freely use, multiple handloading manuals. Most will very nicely walk you through the handloading process.
13. Buy a $12 electronic 6" micrometer from Freight Harbor. Mine's lasted >20 years. and works as well as a $50 one from RCBS.
14. Midsouth Shooters Supply will have the best prices on handloading tools and components.
15. The above mentioned kit comes w/ a priming tool to be used w/ the press. I prefer to use the Lee hand priming tool when loading for precision.
16. The handloader can't be too safe. Remember, you're dealing w/ a miniature bomb that could destroy your gun......or you. Nevertheless, I find it a relaxing hobby. You won't save any money, but you'll find yourself shooting a lot more.
17. I load for a BUNCH of differnt rounds. I have a separate $0.20 three pronged notebook for each one. Keep GOOD records of your loads.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
The only piece of Lee equipment that disappointed me some was the "Disc Measure." It's about as accurate as most inexpensive ones, but makes a mess when used w/ small, spherical powders. I prefer the $5 Lee case cutter and Lee case length gauge (you have to buy a different one for each caliber you load for) over my $80 Redding lathe trimmer.
1. Buy a Universal Decapping and Depriming Die (costs about $10). Mine saved me on the opening weekend of deer season one year when the depriming pin on my 308 Win broke before I'd finished loading some hunting rounds. This leads me to #2.
2. Buy extra depriming pins. They don't break often, but when they do it's always at the worst time.
3. Once you figure out the basic powders you're going to use (you'll probably burn through a lot of 1# cans in the process), buy some 4-8# kegs of your preferred powders. Even w/ the $29 hazardous shipping fee you can still save $$$ buying powder and primers online in large quantities if they're not available locally.
4. Repeat #3 by buying 1000/carton of your preferred primers. I keep my brands/types of primers to a minimum.
5. I like to use the Lee Case Length Gauge (put it in a power drill) to trim brass to the correct length. Much cheaper and faster than a lathe type trimmer. The kits you're looking at come w/ the cutter and shell holder. You'll just need to buy a separate case length gauge for each caliber.
6. The customer service I've experienced from the different manufacturers has been good, but I've been especially impressed w/ Redding's.
7. If you're manually weighing each charge, buy a powder trickler. If not loading a large # of rounds at one time, I still use my manual powder scale.
8. Buy the case and shell holder set (again, mine's Lee). Much less expensive to buy the complete set than to buy them individually.
9. When loading for multiple calibers in one session, only keep ONE can of powder on your bench. I've always had this rule, but managed to accidentally break it last year. It didn't harm me any, but I managed to mix 2 types of powder into a single can. One of the cans was brand new and cost $50/1#.
10. Case prep tools are optional, but IMHO will improve accuracy some. All my case prep tools are manual. The Sinclair primer pocket uniformer is really good and can replace the primer pocket cleaner. The tool can be used to uniform the primer pockets (a step to enhance accuracy) as well as cleaning the primer pocket. Chuck it in your power drill and save some time. I also use a Sinclair flash hole deburring tool to improve accuracy.
11. The Lee powder measure kit is VERY handy.
12. Have available, and freely use, multiple handloading manuals. Most will very nicely walk you through the handloading process.
13. Buy a $12 electronic 6" micrometer from Freight Harbor. Mine's lasted >20 years. and works as well as a $50 one from RCBS.
14. Midsouth Shooters Supply will have the best prices on handloading tools and components.
15. The above mentioned kit comes w/ a priming tool to be used w/ the press. I prefer to use the Lee hand priming tool when loading for precision.
16. The handloader can't be too safe. Remember, you're dealing w/ a miniature bomb that could destroy your gun......or you. Nevertheless, I find it a relaxing hobby. You won't save any money, but you'll find yourself shooting a lot more.
17. I load for a BUNCH of differnt rounds. I have a separate $0.20 three pronged notebook for each one. Keep GOOD records of your loads.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 2:37 pm to saintsfan1977
Good perspective from both you and Tigeronthehill. I guess it's just dealer's choice when it comes to reloading gear. 
Posted on 2/24/17 at 2:41 pm to bapple
Bapple - I have I think 3 sets of Lee and really like them especially for the cost. My other sets are Dillon and Redding. I'm trying to remember, I think all my Lee are rifle dies and all the pistol are redding or Dillon.
I would have a hard time saying what is better between Dillon and Redding though since they're all pistol. I may upgrade my rifle dies at some point but not in any rush.
I would have a hard time saying what is better between Dillon and Redding though since they're all pistol. I may upgrade my rifle dies at some point but not in any rush.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 5:31 pm to bbvdd
I've actually never used a Lee rifle die set before. They're pistol ones aren't bad but obviously I'm partial to green.
Posted on 2/24/17 at 11:50 pm to bapple
Whoever said dump the balance beam scale and get a digital knows not of what he speaks. I have both. Used both. Get much more consistent results from my Ohaus M5.
The one die that Lee makes that everyone should use is their factory taper crimp die - it will give you smaller groups once you've found what your gun likes.
I have an RCBS A3 press that I bought in 1968. I use dies by RCBS and Redding. If you have the money, no one but no one makes better equipment than Redding, but its pricey.
The old saying spend once cry once applies to reloading stuff also.
The one die that Lee makes that everyone should use is their factory taper crimp die - it will give you smaller groups once you've found what your gun likes.
I have an RCBS A3 press that I bought in 1968. I use dies by RCBS and Redding. If you have the money, no one but no one makes better equipment than Redding, but its pricey.
The old saying spend once cry once applies to reloading stuff also.
Posted on 2/25/17 at 10:47 am to bapple
Lee rifle dies are very good. The neck sizing die and crimp die is fantastic. The Redding fl and seating dies are better but you will pay alot more.
Posted on 2/25/17 at 10:51 am to mallardhank
quote:
Whoever said dump the balance beam scale and get a digital knows not of what he speaks.
Truth. Digital is faster but it's not as consistent. Fluorescent lighting will throw the digital scale off as well as air current. I have a cheap digital but I mainly use my Redding beam scale.
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