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Started By
Message
re: NatGeo's Big Fish Texas-Openly fighting against recreational Red Snapper
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:45 pm to Barf
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:45 pm to Barf
quote:
I guess you and I have a different definition of average. Average to me does not own a $30k boat so they can fish 150 miles from home a handful of times per year.
You need to drop this line of bs anyway. The point is the economic status of recreational fishermen should not play any part in the management of the fishery. You are either blind, naive, or just being an a-hole if you can't see the hypocrisy taking place:
Commercial fishermen GIFTED millions of dollars worth of a PUBLIC resource.
The same Commercial fishermen blaming "millionaire" recreational fishermen for over fishing.
1
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:46 pm to bbvdd
Snapper is a rich mans game? We catch them out of fricking kayaks all the time.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 1:57 pm to Whatafrekinchessiebr
quote:
The point is the economic status of recreational fishermen should not play any part in the management of the fishery
I agree is shouldn't make a difference but The economic status of fisherman absolutely influences management. If you get a bunch of rich dudes that like to bow fish, guess what happens.
The snapper thing is sort of unique in that the charter captains aren't getting hosed in the deal. Guess who's got the most cash in the game at that level... the charter captains.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:11 pm to Barf
quote:
If you get a bunch of rich dudes that like to bow fish, guess what happens.
What?
quote:
Guess who's got the most cash in the game at that level... the charter captains.
I am not sure what you mean by cash in the game.
If you mean people who will directly benefit:
It would be commercial guys who are gifted a public resource without having to pay for it. They are then allowed to either fish there portion or sell/lease it to others to fish. Do you get that? They are given a portion of quota (which is a public resource) at no charge and then are allowed to profit on it by selling/leasing it to others or fishing it themselves.
Charter Captains do make money but I would guess it is a much smaller amount than the commercial guys make.
Dollar for Dollar more money is spent on the economy as a whole by the recreational fishermen. Gas, Ice, Food, Bait, Hotels, Boats, Camps......
This post was edited on 3/11/16 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:17 pm to Whatafrekinchessiebr
quote:
Whatafrekinchessiebr
So you want to shut the commercial industry down?
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:20 pm to Whatafrekinchessiebr
quote:
It would be commercial guys who are gifted a public resource without having to pay for it
They were no gifted shite. Their lobby was just better than everyone else. They may not have paid for their quota directly, but it most certainly did not come free. Palms were greased. Make no mistake about it.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:22 pm to Whatafrekinchessiebr
quote:
Dollar for Dollar more money is spent on the economy as a whole by the recreational fishermen. Gas, Ice, Food, Bait, Hotels, Boats, Camps.....
But they aren't making campaign contributions...
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:25 pm to Barf
I love some good ole red snapper debates on here.
Carry on gents.
Carry on gents.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:35 pm to Whatafrekinchessiebr
quote:
Is everyone who owns a bay boat upper middle class?
For the most part, yes. Anybody who makes 100k+ I consider upper middle class. A bay boat capable of safely hitting the rigs runs on average anywhere from 50-120k so I would have to say that the vast majority of offshore fishermen fall in to this category.
This post was edited on 3/11/16 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:35 pm to gaetti15
quote:
So you want to shut the commercial industry down?
If Snapper are as threatened as the commercial guys are claiming it is then maybe that is what should happen. Didn't the Migratory Game Act save waterfowl from the market gunners? Are people allowed to make a profit killing wild deer or elk? No they are considered a public resource and it is illegal to sell them for profit, why should fish be any different.
In reality I know the commercial guys are full of crap and I believe there are enough fish to allow commercial/recreational to coexist. I would be completely fine with them sticking to there 51% and recreational keeping 49% without interference from the commercial guys. The problem is these commercial guys (lead by Buddy Guindon of the OP) are using federal lawsuits to limit recreational access to the fishery. Do you really think it is right for them to be able to fish year round while recreational guys are limited to a 9 day season?
Who is really interested in sustaining this fishery?
Those guys in the commercial industry who have a history of depleting our resources to near extinction for a profit.
Or
Recreational Sportsmen who spend there hard on dollars and time fishing as a hobby.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:39 pm to MC5601
quote:
Anybody who makes 100k+ I consider upper middle class.
Actually think in LA the middle class median is 44K and 88K is the beginning of upper level middle income
This post was edited on 3/11/16 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:42 pm to Barf
quote:
They were no gifted shite. Their lobby was just better than everyone else. They may not have paid for their quota directly, but it most certainly did not come free. Palms were greased. Make no mistake about it.
I think everyone acknowledges this. In fact I think that's why we're having this thread. This isn't a benign misunderstanding, it's outright war being waged on the recreational sector by blaming all the fisheries problems on us when commercial is responsible for them, and the video evidence is right there. The talking points made in the OP are the ammunition and excuses that are used to justify it in the courts.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:42 pm to Whatafrekinchessiebr
The Feds don't count the redfish on the oil rigs because that is not natural habitat... Let that sink in...
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:43 pm to Barf
quote:
They were no gifted shite
quote:
This government distribution of a public commodity to private individuals who are then legally allowed to sell it for a profit is unprecedented in the modern age. The fish swimming in the nation's oceans are a publicly owned resource, just like the oil beneath the seafloor, the trees in our national forests, or the minerals buried beneath federally owned land. For all those resources, the federal government holds auctions and sells the right to harvest the publicly owned commodities to the highest bidder.
But that is not what happened with red snapper.
Kingpins of the Gulf
quote:
They may not have paid for their quota directly, but it most certainly did not come free. Palms were greased. Make no mistake about it.
Oh ok, I didn't realize that. I guess you are right, lets just hand it all to them.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:46 pm to MC5601
quote:
A bay boat runs on average anywhere from 3-100k so I would have to say that the vast majority of offshore Boat Owners fall in to this category.
You do not have to own a boat to fish recreational red snapper.
quote:
You need to drop this line of bs anyway. The point is the economic status of recreational fishermen should not play any part in the management of the fishery. You are either blind, naive, or just being an a-hole if you can't see the hypocrisy taking place:
Commercial fishermen GIFTED millions of dollars worth of a PUBLIC resource.
The same Commercial fishermen blaming "millionaire" recreational fishermen for over fishing.
This post was edited on 3/11/16 at 2:50 pm
Posted on 3/11/16 at 2:47 pm to gaetti15
quote:
So you want to shut the commercial industry down?
Funny you should ask this. Commercial absolutely wants recreational shut down, and they effectively have done it. I realistically know commercial always will and should exist, unfortunately they don't show me the same courtesy. Skewed data and lawsuits are being used to lock recreational out completely, not just stick to 49% like the talking point suggests. That's the entire issue.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 3:06 pm to wickowick
quote:
The Feds don't count the redfish on the oil rigs because that is not natural habitat... Let that sink in...
Posted on 3/11/16 at 3:15 pm to MC5601
quote:Mother fricking blue blood silver spoons right here. I don't think I've ever even been on a bay boat worth more than $65k brand new. Most people I know paid from $20-50k for theirs, but the lower end is much more common. I guess I know a bunch of stingy millionaires that lie and tell people they only make $80k/yr to protect their massive secret money stash hidden in the back yard
A bay boat runs on average anywhere from 50-120k
This post was edited on 3/11/16 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 3/11/16 at 3:27 pm to Hammertime
quote:
Mother fricking blue blood silver spoons right here. I don't think I've ever even been on a bay boat worth more than $65k brand new. Most people I know paid from $20-50k for theirs, but the lower end is much more common. I guess I know a bunch of stingy millionaires that lie and tell people they only make $80k/yr to protect their massive secret money stash hidden in the back yard
I was referring to something you'd buy with the goal of going offshore to fish for snapper, etc... not some 18 footer with a 125.
Posted on 3/11/16 at 3:32 pm to MC5601
There are plenty of people who go offshore in 21-24ft single engine boats that are affordable. Last time I did it, I was in a 19ft Proline. I think going offshore has some stigma attached to it that you need to buy a 100ft Hatteras just to fish the rigs. That's exactly what the Nat Geo guy wants people to believe.
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