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Started By
Message
re: Ford will be introducing a diesel in the F150 later in the 2018 models
Posted on 6/19/17 at 9:10 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Posted on 6/19/17 at 9:10 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
0
Posted on 6/19/17 at 9:13 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
People aren't actually working those engines because the people who really do work them buy 3/4 tons.
Unfortunately for Dodge, the guys who are working the EcoDiesel Rams are finding a lot of weaknesses in the engine's design. I don't think a 4 cylinder would work either, NVH issues would probably put it out of favor with V6's even with similar displacement.
Posted on 6/19/17 at 9:24 pm to Clames
I'm not familiar with the ram diesel but I wouldn't be surprised if it barely weighs more than the ecoboost.
Are there any regulatory things to deal with other than not being obnoxiously loud? I can't imagine there are vibration requirements. Volkswagen has/had that very much under control with the 2.0 TDI and I can't imagine it couldn't me made to work in a pickup pretty easily.
We need an affordable 4 cylinder diesel pickup truck out there for the commuters.
Are there any regulatory things to deal with other than not being obnoxiously loud? I can't imagine there are vibration requirements. Volkswagen has/had that very much under control with the 2.0 TDI and I can't imagine it couldn't me made to work in a pickup pretty easily.
We need an affordable 4 cylinder diesel pickup truck out there for the commuters.
Posted on 6/19/17 at 9:49 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
I'm not familiar with the ram diesel but I wouldn't be surprised if it barely weighs more than the ecoboost.
Not really a weight issue since CGI blocks do better with NVH than aluminum alloy ones. The EcoDiesel is a smooth engine, just one that can suffer from catastrophic failure if one decides to really use the truck to tow its capacity. NVH is a consumer issue and with diesels that's a big deal since so much of the public connects a diesel engine to the racket of OTR trucks and construction equipment. My brother got a TDi Jetta a few years ago and it surprised my mother with how quiet it was, just an example of the mentality that has to be overcome here. Trucks have a somewhat different issue because the engine blocks have to be built as structural components to handle the loads they are designed to carry. In a passenger car the engine and transmission can be highly isolated from the chassis, with a truck the assembly is a big part in stiffening the frame. With every new truck as quiet and smooth as a luxury car from 10 years ago, a diesel's NVH has to be dealt with.
Posted on 6/19/17 at 10:21 pm to Clames
With electronic high pressure fueling and DPFs diesels have come a longggggg way in the smoke and rattle department. I think we'd see customers looking past some shaking and clacking for a pickup truck that gets mid to high 30mpg and can still pull a regular sized boat around occasionally. But that's just like my opinion man.
What light truck uses the engine for structure? All it has to handle is it's own torque and the bending moment from the transmission.
What light truck uses the engine for structure? All it has to handle is it's own torque and the bending moment from the transmission.
Posted on 6/19/17 at 11:00 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
What light truck uses the engine for structure? All it has to handle is it's own torque and the bending moment from the transmission.
Pretty much any that uses body-on-frame. Since the engine is bolted to that frame, stresses from payload/towing are transmitted to it. GM used cast iron for the truck engine blocks for a reason up until some of the Gen IV and all Gen V smallblocks, the latest generation have pretty much phased out cast iron blocks even in the HD trucks. Ford uses CGI for the 2.7L EcoBoost in the truck for the same structural strength reason, the 3.5L has enough mass in its webbing to get away with staying aluminum, the 5.0 V8 was treated the same as the EB in which it was built with extra material in the main webbing to give it the structural rigidity without going to cast iron. Aluminum has better NVH characteristics than cast iron too. Problem with diesels in a light truck application is that the engine block has to be strong enough as a structural member and handle its own high-torque production which means cast iron is likely the choice of material. Ford will probably use CGI like they do in the 2.7L EB and 6.7L PSD.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 6:33 am to Clames
I ain't reading all that, but it looks like a bunch of shite that doesn't make any type of case against a 4 cylinder diesel. Why is an iron block 4 cylinder diesel a bad thing? The TDI has an iron block and aluminum head.
The engine is connected to the truck with rubber isolators. It is most certainly not a structural member for the vehicle. It only has to take its own torque. Engine manufacturers usually have an installation requirement that you design the mounting arrangement such that the vehicle does not transfer loading to the engine other than torque reaction. You don't consider the engine block as load bearing unless you're dealing with larger rigidly mounted stuff like a big genset.
The engine is connected to the truck with rubber isolators. It is most certainly not a structural member for the vehicle. It only has to take its own torque. Engine manufacturers usually have an installation requirement that you design the mounting arrangement such that the vehicle does not transfer loading to the engine other than torque reaction. You don't consider the engine block as load bearing unless you're dealing with larger rigidly mounted stuff like a big genset.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 7:42 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
I'd be ok with killing diesels all together besides 3/4 ton and up.
They're shite and slow and don't get that great of mileage anymore.
They're shite and slow and don't get that great of mileage anymore.
Posted on 6/20/17 at 4:05 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
Why is an iron block 4 cylinder diesel a bad thing?
Because a 4 banger is harder to work with from an NVH perspective than a V6 and the cast iron doesn't help.
quote:
The engine is connected to the truck with rubber isolators.
No shite, very rigid ones compared to what a FWD passenger car uses (which no often use hydraulic dampeners as well). The engine mounts still transmit frame load to the engine block and Ford has SAE whitepapers on the topic. Sorry, you're wrong here but don't let that stop you.
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