re: FBI 9MM Justification, FBI Training Division

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ctiger69

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I like where your head is at finding some very high powered, light-for-caliber defensive rounds.

But I don't like how you give 9mm such a weak offering. That velocity can easily be exceeded in a +P cartridge.

A +P Speer Gold Dot is doing 1220fps at the muzzle (straight from Speer's website). That would surely affect the muzzle energy you listed.

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I like where your head is at finding some very high powered, light-for-caliber defensive rounds. But I don't like how you give 9mm such a weak offering. That velocity can easily be exceeded in a +P cartridge. A +P Speer Gold Dot is doing 1220fps at the muzzle (straight from Speer's website). That would surely affect the muzzle energy you listed.

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I agree. I was using 9 mm logic which is to use my 9 mm hot rounds vs standard rounds for 40, 45, and sig. But 9 mm fans get angry when this is done to them because it shows a huge gap in performance.

The 9 mm hot rounds will be right at 500. Good but a little short of the other three in the performance category.

I like 9 mm. I think it's a good caliber. It performs well. But I don't see the purpose of bashing the other 3 calibers (40. 45, 357 sig).

If it were marginal. Wait, rate....what?

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Capacity and effective firing rate

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This is the only logic-based, performance-based criteria to select 9mm (IMHO). There was a time when you couldn't get a heavier caliber in a concealable weapon. Now, it's hard to think of a weapon made in 9mm and not in .40 S&W (although I'm sure there are some.)

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marginal ballistics difference

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This is a really loaded analysis. "Marginal" is in the eyes of the shooter and target. If your super hot, composite alloy, molecularly bonded, computer designed, +P++ 9mm round stops the fight after 1 hit - then the difference is marginal. If the little extra *oomph* from a heavier bullet, making a larger wound channel, under the real world conditions of the platform, intermediate obstacles and target would have made the difference in you winning the gunfight and living, versus losing the gunfight and dying, the difference is likely going to be regarded as greater than marginal.

But, again, I'm not anti-9mm - I'm probably as pro-9mm as I have been in my life.

Still not much, but it is no longer anti -

That's progress, right Bap?

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I just checked one gun I was sorta interested in, and 9 to .40 was 19+1 vs. 15+1. Doesn't seem like that big a deal.

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I'll play devil's (9mm's) advocate in this case.

If you run out of ammo and the target doesn't and you lose the gunfight, then the difference in firepower will, in fact, be considered a "big deal".

(Damned law school...)

Where does it end? Why are you satisfied with 19?

9 needs a better advocate.

If we're being honest, there's only one correct answer for all scenarios:

40 disgusts me so. I hate seeing such poop on the shelf next to glorious 45acp.

I dunno, I was reaching out to my 9mm friends. 40 is what happens when 45acp takes poops.