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duck season interesting read from up north...

Posted on 7/17/17 at 7:56 am
Posted by choupiquesushi
yaton rouge
Member since Jun 2006
30632 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 7:56 am
looks like nobody up there watched duck dynasty if they lost 40K hunters...

LINK /
Posted by gumbeaux
Member since Jun 2004
4468 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 8:15 am to
Me and my duck hunting buddy have been saying this for several years now and thus article helps reinforce it.
Posted by The Last Coco
On the water
Member since Mar 2009
6841 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 8:24 am to
quote:

Me and my duck hunting buddy have been saying this for several years now and thus article helps reinforce it.


The article specifically states that mallard numbers, while up nationally, are down locally in MN, MI, and WI.

What exactly have you been saying that this article helps reinforce?

I always hear people reminisce about the "good ole days" but the reality of the science shows that by and large we are better off today than we were in the "good ole days". Just because your hole doesn't produce like it did, doesn't mean overall the ducks aren't here. Hunters need to adapt and move to find birds. The ones that do that are as successful as they've ever been, moreso even. The ones who don't will see cyclical changes in their season harvest.

ETA: Duck hunter numbers are down across the board FWIW. While public lands seem to be more crowded, overall hunter numbers are down. I think this means that fewer individuals hunt more of the private land so the remaining hunters are pushed into smaller amounts of public land thus making it feel like there are more hunters even though the opposite is the case. Subsequently, the ducks are probably moving into the uncrowded private areas once again creating the appearance of lower numbers for the public weekend warrior when in reality they just moved.
This post was edited on 7/17/17 at 8:28 am
Posted by Jack Daniel
In the bottle
Member since Feb 2013
25491 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 8:31 am to
Plenty of face paint on the shelves
Posted by LSUfreak1459
Member since Feb 2008
845 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 8:39 am to
I agree with everything you said. I believe the decreasing number of hunters on private land creates a safe haven for the birds. Every year I know where the birds will be, and I'm always tempted to ask permission to hunt. Though last year was one of the best years I can remember. We are still killing a lot of birds even in our down years.
Posted by choupiquesushi
yaton rouge
Member since Jun 2006
30632 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 9:27 am to
heck they are even blaming minnow farmers......


but no mention of one of the bigger culprits..

NO TILL
Posted by GREENHEAD22
Member since Nov 2009
19610 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 10:25 am to
No till and the new agricultural practices have definitely had an effect here locally in the state and area in general. However I am still very skeptical of all these record numbers of birds that we are supposed to have. Hopefully Larry can drop in and share some knowledge on how they come up with the numbers but I want to say that I large part is based on equation and not actual hands-on research and eyeballing. I know in the state they do actual flyovers and counts but I am talking about the yearly population as a whole.
This post was edited on 7/17/17 at 10:27 am
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20483 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 10:32 am to
While public hunting lands are busy, there are also tons of now "public" and private land that is not hunted at all. Up north for example the power plants that use water to cool down equipment and have ponds they expel the water into. So those ponds are now safe havens that don't freeze over so they hold birds until the ground freezes or snow is so thick the food is gone.

Golf courses and other state land that is off limits to hunting are sprouting up all over the place, waterfowl aren't stupid. Even private land with people that don't hunt, give birds a long weekend of being shot at and they find out right quick that that little 2 acre pond across the street is not hunted. Next thing you know it holds 1,000 birds that fly over your head at 400 ft and filter in to that spot the rest of the year.

"Back in the day" people would just ask permission (or not) and go hunt those little safe havens the birds found, and the birds would be pushed back around. Now there are safe havens for birds they never have to leave.
This post was edited on 7/17/17 at 10:35 am
Posted by choupiquesushi
yaton rouge
Member since Jun 2006
30632 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 10:36 am to
quote:


Golf courses and other state land that is off limits to hunting are sprouting up all over the place, waterfowl aren't stupid


actually I think the number of golf courses is declining nationwide
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20483 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 10:37 am to
quote:


actually I think the number of golf courses is declining nationwide


I'm sure from say the 1990s-2000s, but I'm just saying there are a ton of new golf courses since "back in the day" like the 1980s or before. I mean there are a ton of golf courses that are less than 25 years old.

Its not just golf courses by any means. Take an HOA community with a couple of ponds, or any development. I've seen industrial ponds just loaded with ducks.
This post was edited on 7/17/17 at 10:39 am
Posted by MWP
Kingwood, TX via Monroe, LA
Member since Jul 2013
10445 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 10:56 am to
quote:

However I am still very skeptical of all these record numbers of birds that we are supposed to have. Hopefully Larry can drop in and share some knowledge on how they come up with the numbers but I want to say that I large part is based on equation and not actual hands-on research and eyeballing.


I think the USF&W still does pond counts and brood surveys with boots on the ground.

I am like you though, skeptical on these record numbers. Especially on the Mallard counts. Where are all these Mallards? Very few even make it into LA anymore and I know AR has fr fewer compared to the numbers of 20 or so years ago and if MI doesn't have them I guess MO is hoarding all the Mallards.
Posted by eyepooted
Member since Jul 2010
5717 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 12:30 pm to
Go to Kansas. They have a shitload of mallards and pintails. I found that out last year.
Posted by damnedoldtigah
Middle of Louisiana
Member since Jan 2014
4275 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 12:37 pm to
I enjoyed the sport, but stopped duck hunting several years ago. It seemed to be that the show was essentially over after the first couple of weeks of the first split ... at least on Catahoula. Miss it, but I am not going to spend that kind of money to sit in a blind and admire the sky.
Posted by jimjackandjose
Member since Jun 2011
6498 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 1:04 pm to
Ive been to Canada in January and there were still ducks and geese in the fields.

No till has had a huge affect on the migration. I also believe the flyway has shifted to more non-traditional duck hunting states to the west.
Posted by choupiquesushi
yaton rouge
Member since Jun 2006
30632 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 1:57 pm to
quote:

Ive been to Canada in January and there were still ducks and geese in the fields.

No till has had a huge affect on the migration. I also believe the flyway has shifted to more non-traditional duck hunting states to the west.


and changing land use practices and habitat changes here have hurt us more than most who know will admit....
Posted by Duckhammer_77
TD Platinum member
Member since Nov 2016
2687 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 3:06 pm to
quote:

Take an HOA community with a couple of ponds, or any development. I've seen industrial ponds just loaded with ducks.


our HOA ponds are always full of smug fat drakes n hens swimming around
Posted by MWP
Kingwood, TX via Monroe, LA
Member since Jul 2013
10445 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 3:08 pm to
quote:

Miss it, but I am not going to spend that kind of money to sit in a blind and admire the sky.


I doubt I could ever be tied down to a blind again. It's so much better to get a network of outfitters and then just pay hunt. That way you pretty much kill birds since a reputable outfitter usually tells you if they aren't killing, you get a guide that pretty well does the dirty work, and you get a change of scenery from the same blind day in and day out. The drawback is obviously not getting to go when you want but I am good with that.
Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
45815 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 3:22 pm to
quote:

No till has had a huge affect on the migration. I also believe the flyway has shifted to more non-traditional duck hunting states to the west.


Hell in South Dakota, we have called up landowners on the phone, when we got their name from a plot book. They always think we are calling for pheasants and they say they have already promised the pheasants to others to hunt. Then we say, no we want to hunt the ducks and it is like we are asking to catch hardhead catfish. They are like sure, if you want to hunt ducks, have at it...
Posted by Lreynolds
Member since Mar 2012
286 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 3:28 pm to
Dennis Anderson is a long-time waterfowl alarmist. In the mid-80's it was illegal harvest in Louisiana that was driving waterfowl populations down, and he did a big piece that generated enough donations to buy a helicopter and send it to LE in Louisiana to "save the ducks". In the early-90's he was part of the "we're killing too many ducks" crowd and implored the USFWS to close the season (as did Delta Waterfowl) to "save the ducks". This is more of the same.

We use the same data to set the waterfowl seasons now as we always have. There are planes/observers in the air and crews on the ground to estimate the Bpop and ponds. You can read their reports yourself at www.flyways.us while they conduct the largest, most scientifically sound wildlife survey on the planet. The July brood survey was discontinued nearly 30 years ago because it didn't provide any additional value for the season-setting process, but we still use the pond counts affected by the drought.

The only thing new in the article is that we set the seasons using past year's data now. But that is because of limitations in federal law making (NEPA compliance, public comment periods, and review by federal Solicitor's Office) that we used to be able to short-cut but have faced legal challenges. Canada has set seasons a year in advance for decades, and now they set them for 2 years at a time. And as we all know, duck populations have never responded to changes in hunting regulations, much less in 1 year, so is it really a big deal?

The real BS in the article is that 1) some waterfowl managers are considering being done with harvest regulations altogether because they don't influence waterfowl populations and 2) that we continue to set liberal seasons to keep hunters in the field. First, it's only hunting regulations within the historic bounds that we know have little effect on populations. We have no experience with unlimited or completely closed seasons, so no manager anywhere thinks we should get rid of hunting regulations. Second, we now have firm evidence that liberal hunting regulations don't keep hunters in the field, and that hunter satisfaction increases with their kill until you get to 4 ducks; that 5th or 6th duck doesn't lead to any real increase in satisfaction. So why a bag limit of 6?

Because it's scientifically defensible, that's why.

Lastly, you all know the score ..... large-scale population estimates/habitat conditions do NOT dictate local hunting success. It seems that nothing is working FOR us in Louisiana, but many forces are working AGAINST us. Coastal wetland loss, loss and emigration of rice agriculture, advances(changes) in agricultural practices, climate change, invasive aquatics, etc. are all reducing the attractiveness and capacity of Louisiana habitats to support waterfowl. Some, like climate change and agricultural practices, are driving similar changes in birds wintering further north in Russia, Europe, the Middle East ..... everywhere in the northern hemisphere. I'm sometimes surprised at the ducks I continue to count from the plane every fall/winter, and what we have is still pretty special.

Sorry for the long-winded rant, but the "rules" for setting the season are clear, and the data is the same as it's always been. I'm going to a flyway meeting in August, and using the BPop, ponds, harvest, and banding data, we are going to set the framework for the 2018-19 season. I'll be giving a presentation on that and other Waterfowl Section stuff to the Commission the first Thursday in September.
This post was edited on 7/18/17 at 9:38 am
Posted by tigerfoot
Alexandria
Member since Sep 2006
56362 posts
Posted on 7/17/17 at 3:31 pm to
quote:

ell in South Dakota, we have called up landowners on the phone, when we got their name from a plot book. They always think we are calling for pheasants and they say they have already promised the pheasants to others to hunt. Then we say, no we want to hunt the ducks and it is like we are asking to catch hardhead catfish. They are like sure, if you want to hunt ducks, have at it...


That is the way the farmers used to look at us in Iowa in the late 80s when we asked them to hunt deer. They all had the same response, 'yeah, but if you go on my land you have to kill every one that you see...and dont mess with my cattle gates or drive the pasture'

Not one of them understood even a little bit why we wanted to hunt deer. that all changed by the early 2000's. I dont go any more, but my friends have access to like two woodlots now a days....and even those have deer that they cant shoot.
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