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Started By
Message
re: Bill filed for starting a Louisiana bear season next year.
Posted on 3/8/22 at 8:29 am to EF Hutton
Posted on 3/8/22 at 8:29 am to EF Hutton
quote:
The property damage, i.e. corn feeders, they don't belong anyway, in the natural order of things. So many folk do not know or have forgot conservation.
That has already happened, it contributed to the rise in population.
quote:
The majority of Louisiana black bear habitat falls on private lands, where the U.S. Departments of Agriculture and the Interior worked with Louisiana farmers to voluntarily restore more than 485,000 acres of bottomland hardwood forests in priority areas for conservation. One key tool was the use of conservation easements in these targeted areas, through which USDA’s Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) worked with farmers to restore habitat on difficult-to-farm lands. This strategic approach became one of the building blocks for Working Lands for Wildlife, a partnership between the Service and NRCS to conserve wildlife habitats on agricultural lands nationwide.
“Farmers played a pivotal role in helping the Louisiana black bear recover, using easements and other Farm Bill conservation programs to sew together primary habitat corridors,” Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack said. “By working together, we’re able to achieve more conservation, direct resources where biological returns are highest and achieve a larger habitat footprint spanning public and private lands.”
See USFWS Link above
1
Posted on 3/8/22 at 10:38 am to tommy2tone1999
Quotes from Plaintiffs in Louisiana Black Bear Lawsuit:
“The only true Louisiana black bear populations are in the TRB and the LARB separated by over 160 miles, as the crow flies, and with no hope of ever connecting unless the bear is listed again and the ESA protections are implemented. To make matters worse, the LARB population
is along the coast south of Highway 90 (soon to be 1-49), with no viable corridor to safely move north into the Atchafalaya Basin as sea level rises. Nothing is sacred to the state or the FWS. We paid millions of dollars to permanently protect critical habitat, but roads, fields and houses are built in violation of those easements, conditions are never enforced for permitted activities, and not only are our environmental laws not enforced but illegal developers are even rewarded with after-the-fact permits. None of the forests, on which bears depend for acorns as food prior to winter, is truly protected from clear-cuts, which are found even in wildlife management areas.”
Basinkeeper Executive Director Dean Wilson:
“The alleged ‘recovery’ of the Louisiana black bear is based primarily on the claim that the Tensas River Basin (TRB) and the Upper Atchafalaya River Basin (UARB) are viable and securely connected through a group of TRB bears that were artificially translocated to the Three
Rivers Complex (TRC), an area between the TRB and UARB. The TRB, UARB, and TRC bears now supposedly have formed a growing ‘metapopulation’ with genetic exchange throughout.
Despite FWS claims, however, the UARB population is not native luteolus but the descendant of another subspecies introduced from Minnesota in the 1960s to foster sport hunting.”
PEER General Counsel Paula Dinerstein:
“If the UARB population is not the legally listed luteolus, the recovery criterion of two viable populations is not met, the claim of a secure connection is obviated, the concept of an expanding, interchanging "metapopulation" within the TRB, UARB, and TRC falls apart, the TRC group is demonstrably a hybrid, and the sole remaining supposedly viable population, that of the TRB, is shown to be in imminent danger through hybridization with an alien entity.”
Ron Nowak, a mammal taxonomist and former employee of the now abolished FWS Office of Endangered Species:
“The 2016 FWS delisting rule stated that the Louisiana black bear was listed as a ‘practical means for protecting any possibly remaining unique genetic material belonging to U. a. luteolus.’ The original 1992 listing rule stated: ‘Hybridization as a threat has neither been discounted nor proven and remains unsettled. Since the genetic profile of a known U. a. luteolus is unavailable,
the issue is unlikely to be settled.’ However, the Laufenberg and Clark report has provided comprehensive genetic data on all bears in Louisiana and proven survival of genetically distinct populations of luteolus and historical lack of hybridization. FWS’s failure to properly interpret the latest studies makes a mockery of the requirement that only the ‘best available science’ be
considered pursuant to the Endangered Species Act.”
Dr. Michael Caire, Louisiana black bear advocate:
“Louisiana has more than its fair share of wild game to hunt ethically,” said Scott Eustis, Community Science Director for Healthy Gulf. “The Louisiana black bear should not be sacrificed for the hunting interests of a few people at the peril of the species’ survival. The
Louisiana black bear should be immediately returned to the threatened/endangered species list.”
There is no way this thing will succeed. That is probably why they introduced the bill. The plaintiffs cite everything from global warming to to feelings. There is even a guy that does swamp tours bitching.
Basin Keepers News
“The only true Louisiana black bear populations are in the TRB and the LARB separated by over 160 miles, as the crow flies, and with no hope of ever connecting unless the bear is listed again and the ESA protections are implemented. To make matters worse, the LARB population
is along the coast south of Highway 90 (soon to be 1-49), with no viable corridor to safely move north into the Atchafalaya Basin as sea level rises. Nothing is sacred to the state or the FWS. We paid millions of dollars to permanently protect critical habitat, but roads, fields and houses are built in violation of those easements, conditions are never enforced for permitted activities, and not only are our environmental laws not enforced but illegal developers are even rewarded with after-the-fact permits. None of the forests, on which bears depend for acorns as food prior to winter, is truly protected from clear-cuts, which are found even in wildlife management areas.”
Basinkeeper Executive Director Dean Wilson:
“The alleged ‘recovery’ of the Louisiana black bear is based primarily on the claim that the Tensas River Basin (TRB) and the Upper Atchafalaya River Basin (UARB) are viable and securely connected through a group of TRB bears that were artificially translocated to the Three
Rivers Complex (TRC), an area between the TRB and UARB. The TRB, UARB, and TRC bears now supposedly have formed a growing ‘metapopulation’ with genetic exchange throughout.
Despite FWS claims, however, the UARB population is not native luteolus but the descendant of another subspecies introduced from Minnesota in the 1960s to foster sport hunting.”
PEER General Counsel Paula Dinerstein:
“If the UARB population is not the legally listed luteolus, the recovery criterion of two viable populations is not met, the claim of a secure connection is obviated, the concept of an expanding, interchanging "metapopulation" within the TRB, UARB, and TRC falls apart, the TRC group is demonstrably a hybrid, and the sole remaining supposedly viable population, that of the TRB, is shown to be in imminent danger through hybridization with an alien entity.”
Ron Nowak, a mammal taxonomist and former employee of the now abolished FWS Office of Endangered Species:
“The 2016 FWS delisting rule stated that the Louisiana black bear was listed as a ‘practical means for protecting any possibly remaining unique genetic material belonging to U. a. luteolus.’ The original 1992 listing rule stated: ‘Hybridization as a threat has neither been discounted nor proven and remains unsettled. Since the genetic profile of a known U. a. luteolus is unavailable,
the issue is unlikely to be settled.’ However, the Laufenberg and Clark report has provided comprehensive genetic data on all bears in Louisiana and proven survival of genetically distinct populations of luteolus and historical lack of hybridization. FWS’s failure to properly interpret the latest studies makes a mockery of the requirement that only the ‘best available science’ be
considered pursuant to the Endangered Species Act.”
Dr. Michael Caire, Louisiana black bear advocate:
“Louisiana has more than its fair share of wild game to hunt ethically,” said Scott Eustis, Community Science Director for Healthy Gulf. “The Louisiana black bear should not be sacrificed for the hunting interests of a few people at the peril of the species’ survival. The
Louisiana black bear should be immediately returned to the threatened/endangered species list.”
There is no way this thing will succeed. That is probably why they introduced the bill. The plaintiffs cite everything from global warming to to feelings. There is even a guy that does swamp tours bitching.
Basin Keepers News
This post was edited on 3/8/22 at 11:27 am
Posted on 3/8/22 at 11:11 am to mrcoon
Your last paragraph is confusing. Try to go to edit and change a few words that seem wrong.
By the way, not saying anything either way on your info, but i've seen this before, where rich weekend fishermen with connections, effected the gill net ban of the 1990's
and caused blocking of launches in Venice.
By the way, not saying anything either way on your info, but i've seen this before, where rich weekend fishermen with connections, effected the gill net ban of the 1990's
and caused blocking of launches in Venice.
This post was edited on 3/8/22 at 11:15 am
Posted on 3/8/22 at 11:27 am to mrcoon
quote:
“If the UARB population is not the legally listed luteolus, the recovery criterion of two viable populations is not met, the claim of a secure connection is obviated, the concept of an expanding, interchanging "metapopulation" within the TRB, UARB, and TRC falls apart, the TRC group is demonstrably a hybrid, and the sole remaining supposedly viable population, that of the TRB, is shown to be in imminent danger through hybridization with an alien entity.”
WTF does all this word salad mean?
Posted on 3/8/22 at 12:06 pm to mrcoon
Looks like environmentalists who refuse to admit that hunting is the most viable conservation method available to address population control.
This guy has ZERO credibility as an environmental protector of the Atchafalya Basin.
WBRZ - INVESTIGATIVE UNIT: Environmentalist faces potential fines for dumping raw sewage into waterway
ETA: It's worse than I thought. I also found this Sierra Club Website - Request for Summary Judgement This is not a battle to stop hunting. This is a land grab pure and simple. They are intending to get more land declared as "critical habitat" (ie protected land) which will rob landowners of their rights of use of their own private property.
quote:
Dean Wilson basin keepers
This guy has ZERO credibility as an environmental protector of the Atchafalya Basin.
WBRZ - INVESTIGATIVE UNIT: Environmentalist faces potential fines for dumping raw sewage into waterway
quote:
Dean admitted over the phone to WBRZ that he does not have a sewer at his home and promised to get into compliance. Records show Wilson applied for a sewer permit in 2004 at that location in Bayou Sorrel, but nothing happened to finalize the permit and verify its installation.
Fisher refused to answer questions about whether raw sewage was good for the Basin. She said "thank you" before walking away from the microphone and camera.
Iberville Parish President Mitch Ourso said dumping raw sewage into waterways is not only illegal, but it's also a shock given Wilson's background.
"It's really ironic that this gentleman is a big environmentalist and so forth and 'save the trees' and all of this.... Really surprising to me," Ourso said.
Ourso said his inspectors showed up at the property Monday and also found raw sewage coming from the home.
"It's confirmed that he has raw sewer running from his house into a stream of water," Ourso said. "He should know better than that."
The state told Wilson he has until Feb. 5, 2021 to get into compliance or he can face stiff fines and penalties. Ourso said the parish will be following up.
"If he doesn't come into compliance, the parish will start the process of doing what we have to do. And he has the right to due process," Ourso said.
ETA: It's worse than I thought. I also found this Sierra Club Website - Request for Summary Judgement This is not a battle to stop hunting. This is a land grab pure and simple. They are intending to get more land declared as "critical habitat" (ie protected land) which will rob landowners of their rights of use of their own private property.
quote:
I am concerned that the delisting will continue to adversely impact the Basin's ability to serve as viable habitat for the Lower Atchafalaya River Basin population of Louisiana black bears, as well as the overall productivity of the wetlands and ecosystems in the Atchafalaya Basin.
Potential conservation measures that would result from returning the Louisiana black bear to the U.S. List of Endangered and Threatened Wildlife and re-designating its critical habitat, will protect existing populations and habitat, and would redress these particularized, concrete injuries by preserving and restoring wildlife habitat, protecting existing populations from further harm and thus enhancing ABK's ability to fulfill its mission to protect the Basin's native wildlife and its habitat, as well as the recreational, conservation and aesthetic interests of our members.
Unless these injuries are redressed through relisting and re-designation of critical habitat, ABK, our members and myself personally will continue suffer substantial harm.
This post was edited on 3/8/22 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 3/8/22 at 12:07 pm to CouldCareLess
Read it in the voice of Kramer's lawyer Jackie.
Posted on 3/8/22 at 12:08 pm to mrcoon
quote:
Dr. Michael Caire, Louisiana black bear advocate:
That baw delivered me
Posted on 3/8/22 at 12:33 pm to LSUballs
FYI - there is no actual subspecies that is the Louisiana Black Bear. It’s just a Black Bear.
Posted on 3/8/22 at 12:49 pm to 257WBY
"its just a black bear"
-Matchmaker Grizzly Smith
CHAMPION of regular bear
-Matchmaker Grizzly Smith
CHAMPION of regular bear
Posted on 3/8/22 at 12:59 pm to Ron Cheramie
quote:
That baw delivered me
From what?
Posted on 3/8/22 at 1:00 pm to CouldCareLess
quote:
From what?
From my mommas vag
Posted on 3/8/22 at 1:05 pm to 257WBY
quote:
The Louisiana black bear, U.a. luteolus, was originally described by Merriam (1893)
on the basis of skull morphology. It historically occupied
eastern Texas, all of Louisiana, southern Mississippi, and
the southern portion of Arkansas. The American black
bear occupied eastern and central North America, including central and northern Arkansas (Hall 1981)
quote:
Any genetic impacts that may have been caused by the
translocations were not statistically significant. The bear
population of northeastern Minnesota exhibits less withinpopulation genetic similarity than bear populations in
Louisiana and Arkansas, and populations in Louisiana
and Arkansas are more closely related to each other than
they are to the population in Minnesota.
Genetic Variaiton in Black Bear
quote:Nature Stewards
The Louisiana Black Bear, formally known as the Ursus americanus lutelous is one of 16 subspecies of Black Bear. This subspecies tends to be smaller and have longer, narrower skulls than other black bears as well as proportionally larger molars.
quote:US Fish and Wildlife
The Louisiana black bear is one of sixteen recognized subspecies of the American black bear U. americanus (Hall, 1981). The species was formerly widespread in North America, from northern Alaska, including Newfoundland, south to central northern Mexico (Lowrey, 1981). The Louisiana black bear historically occurred from eastern Texas, throughout Louisiana and southwest Mississippi (Hall 1981) and is distinguished from other black bears by possessing a skull that is longer, more narrow, and flat, and by possessing proportionately large molar teeth (Nowak, 1986).
Are all of the above perpetrators of disinformation?
Posted on 3/8/22 at 1:13 pm to EF Hutton
quote:
biologists with Master degrees
Posted on 3/8/22 at 1:34 pm to mrcoon
quote:
Are all of the above perpetrators of disinformation?
This is all just splitting hairs. It is called the Endangered Species Act, not the Endangered Subspecies Act. Continuing to elevate subspecies to the level of species can have dangerous consequences especially for supposed geographically isolated subspecies. The introduction of other subspecies into the breeding population only serves to strengthen the gene pool by reducing inbreeding in a given population.
Also, if you examine the history of taxonomy, you will see that there have been many species and subspecies named and then later synonymized.
This post was edited on 3/8/22 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 3/8/22 at 2:17 pm to tommy2tone1999
quote:
Dean admitted over the phone to WBRZ that he does not have a sewer at his home and promised to get into compliance.
Posted on 3/8/22 at 2:28 pm to tommy2tone1999
All I know is I don’t have any bears on my property and I don’t want any.
I think bears belong in the wilderness,not in Louisiana.We’ve already got enough problems with feral hogs..We don’t need bears and hogs decimating the deer herds and damaging farmers livelihoods.
Deer hunting has a significant positive impact on the economy.Think about all the money deer hunters spend on the sport.
Keep bears in the wilderness and if people want to travel and spend bunch of money to shoot one that’s fine.
I think bears belong in the wilderness,not in Louisiana.We’ve already got enough problems with feral hogs..We don’t need bears and hogs decimating the deer herds and damaging farmers livelihoods.
Deer hunting has a significant positive impact on the economy.Think about all the money deer hunters spend on the sport.
Keep bears in the wilderness and if people want to travel and spend bunch of money to shoot one that’s fine.
Posted on 3/8/22 at 2:39 pm to LSUA 75
quote:
All I know is I don’t have any bears on my property and I don’t want any.
Agree.. I think all the people bitching about a season are those that don't have to deal with bears.
Posted on 3/8/22 at 8:14 pm to mrcoon
Posted on 3/8/22 at 8:46 pm to 257WBY
Interesting, and likely somebody's masters thesis project.
But so what. Its a bear. Bears once roamed here naturally, until Ben Lilly killed a bunch, and soybean prices caused land clearing.
So , yes its a bear, it is black, so, here we go. Back to normal . Alot of the fields are now fully reforested. We are well on our way. Good deal. In the future, the commission will issue some tags. All good.
But so what. Its a bear. Bears once roamed here naturally, until Ben Lilly killed a bunch, and soybean prices caused land clearing.
So , yes its a bear, it is black, so, here we go. Back to normal . Alot of the fields are now fully reforested. We are well on our way. Good deal. In the future, the commission will issue some tags. All good.
Posted on 3/9/22 at 8:42 am to 257WBY
Humm, if their science is correct then all this hullabaloo was over basically regulars bears. A lot of habitat was restored in the process so it wasn't all for naught. I would worry that this paper would serve as ammo for landowners to plow everything up again.
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