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re: WWII: Would You Choose the Pacific or Europe?
Posted on 7/9/14 at 10:56 am to Henry Jones Jr
Posted on 7/9/14 at 10:56 am to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
The treatment of western enemies was night and day compared to their treatment of eastern enemies
That's because Hitler fought the East in order to exterminate the people living there to allow Germany's growing population to settle Eastern Europe. Hitler fought the West because France and Germany declared war on him for invading Poland. Hitler's conquest of France went far better than even his generals dreamed. They were completely unprepared for how easy that went.
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Posted on 7/9/14 at 10:57 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Might sink and get eaten by sharks. Happened to quite a few.
Maybe, but if I'm going to the Pacific, I'd rather my chances with the sharks than the japs. I'd much rather freeze my arse off in Belgium.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:05 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Now I've got a 12 year old son and he's every bit as interested in history as I am.
Nice. Sadly, my son has no interest in it...though he does ask me questions from time to time about my world war 2 book "collection".
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:07 am to asurob1
how old, I find it impossible for world war II not to interest everyone in one fashion or another.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:07 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
I've got a TBF Avenger on my model desk that's been there for close to a year. I need to go by the hobby shop and get some paints and get back to working on it.
I got back into building models about two years ago after a 30 year lay off.
Right now I have four on my table though I haven't made a lot of progress on any of them the last few months (job,wife,life). Got a zero that is "this" close to being done though.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:09 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
The Japs liked dying in battle. Probably would have been disgraceful to show up with bullet holes in you plane.
They didn't like dying in battle anymore then we did.
They believed it was honorable to die for the emperor.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:11 am to Spaceman Spiff
quote:
What's your take on why the Germans lost the BoB? I think it was because they shifted from hitting airfields/radar installations and moved to cities. I read that the RAF was on its last legs..
Willpower and the lack of actual strategic bombers.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:13 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
But that brings up another question, would Hitler have actually gone and invaded England?
No you are right. The Royal navy would have broken up any sea invasion. The Kreigsmarine was way way too small to really do much more then it did (surface ships).
The best Hitler could have achieved was air superiority over the UK. He was already distracted/focused on invading the Soviets. Sea Lion was never going to happen.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:14 am to asurob1
quote:
lack of actual strategic bombers.
That is one oversight from the Germans I've never really understood. They built up the Luftwaffe into the worlds premiere tactical air force but totally ignored the opportunities having a strategic air force could bring. Imagine had we tried bombing Germany into submission by using nothing by B-25's and B-26's. For all intents and purposes that what the Germans tried to do in the Battle of Britain.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:16 am to DelU249
quote:
how old, I find it impossible for world war II not to interest everyone in one fashion or another.
He is 15 now. He is a science geek so history just never really interested him.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:16 am to SBC
Had 2 uncles, one who fought in the Pacific Theater & the other in the European. Uncle O "hated" the Japs, particularly the front line troops. Said they booby trapped everything, faked surrenders to get G.I's out in the open before opening fire, were mean & vicious fighters.Hated them till the day he died. Uncle B fought from Omaha thru the end of the war & only came to hate the SS. Though the German Army was no group of angels, they were a bit more civilized.He really only ever spoke of one atrocity he personally saw committed by the SS: as his unit entered a newly liberated village in western France, they came across 2 long rows of bodies, hands tied behind their backs: the SS had run them over with their Panzers. Normal villagers, not soldiers & not Jews as they were long gone by then. Just ordinary peasant types. Another uncle lost his leg at Pearl Harbor when the sub he was on sank in the first wave of attacks, so he never served in either theater. But he did hate the Japs with a passion.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:17 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
That is one oversight from the Germans I've never really understood. They built up the Luftwaffe into the worlds premiere tactical air force but totally ignored the opportunities having a strategic air force could bring. Imagine had we tried bombing Germany into submission by using nothing by B-25's and B-26's. For all intents and purposes that what the Germans tried to do in the Battle of Britain.
Precisely. While they had the RAF on the ropes before they switched to terror bombing (Thanks to Churchill bombing berlin) the lack of real bombers hurt them more then anything else. A huge oversight for the other wise incredible German war machine.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:21 am to asurob1
quote:
He is 15 now. He is a science geek so history just never really interested him.
Buy him a book (more technical than narrative) about the manhattan project, or find a good documentary
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:22 am to asurob1
quote:
A huge oversight for the other wise incredible German war machine.
There have been many oversights by the Germans that could have had a effect - for example, Hitler's determination to use the ME 262 more along the bomber/attack role rather than what it was intended for...
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:26 am to asurob1
quote:
Precisely. While they had the RAF on the ropes before they switched to terror bombing (Thanks to Churchill bombing berlin) the lack of real bombers hurt them more then anything else. A huge oversight for the other wise incredible German war machine.
One other thing that hampered them was the limited range of the BF-109. I've read accounts that once they reached English air space they would have to turn around and head home in like 10 minutes or they'd run out of fuel on the way home. The was doubly troubling for the Germans because initially they planned on using the longer range BF-110 to escort their bombers but quickly found out they were no match for the British Hurricanes and Spitfires. On some missions they actually had Bf-109's escorting the BF-110's that were in turn supposed to be escorting the HE-111's & DO-17's.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:28 am to Spaceman Spiff
quote:
There have been many oversights by the Germans that could have had a effect - for example, Hitler's determination to use the ME 262 more along the bomber/attack role rather than what it was intended for...
Had he not done this and allowed the ME 262 to go into full production it would have hit the battlefields almost a year sooner and very well could have altered the course of the war to the point that Nazi Germany could have perhaps survived a settled peace.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:28 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
On some missions they actually had Bf-109's escorting the BF-110's that were in turn supposed to be escorting the HE-111's & DO-17's.
Oh yeah...109s became the workhorse...but their range was terrible. We had similiar issues with our fighters bombing germany until the P51 came on the scene.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:31 am to asurob1
quote:
Oh yeah...109s became the workhorse...but their range was terrible. We had similiar issues with our fighters bombing germany until the P51 came on the scene.
"When I saw those Mustangs over Berlin, I knew that the war was lost."
- Herman Goering
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:35 am to asurob1
quote:
We had similiar issues with our fighters bombing germany until the P51 came on the scene.
Exactly. I read somewhere that Yeager or the likes said what a Spitfire could do in two (or was it four?) hours the P-51 could do for eight.
Also have read that other fighters (ex P-38) also had the range into Berlin. This would make sense due to the distances they covered in the PTO.
Posted on 7/9/14 at 11:40 am to Spaceman Spiff
quote:
Also have read that other fighters (ex P-38) also had the range into Berlin. This would make sense due to the distances they covered in the PTO.
The P-38 had the range but it was similar to the BF-110 in that it could not dogfight the smaller more nimble single engine fighters. Had we sent P-38's to Berlin to try and escort our bombers in and out of there, they'd have been slaughtered for no effect. Our higher ups realized this fact and instead of wasting P-38's over Berlin, used them to great effect as front line ground support in the ETO.
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