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re: Will MDs PEC someone if they're not a danger to themself/others?
Posted on 12/26/15 at 1:34 pm to el Gaucho
Posted on 12/26/15 at 1:34 pm to el Gaucho
It's possible to PEC someone without them being a danger to self or others, but they have to be exhibiting behaviors that severely disrupt their daily lives. It's really up to the physician, if it's a minor and parents lobby hard then many docs will do it. I'm a psych RN, fwiw.
3
Posted on 12/26/15 at 1:37 pm to Errerrerrwere
quote:
I'd tell her husband to run for the hills
I think he's about to. And he loves her until it's ridiculous. It's a crying shame.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 1:38 pm to SW2SCLA
quote:
It's possible to PEC someone without them being a danger to self or others, but they have to be exhibiting behaviors that severely disrupt their daily lives. It's really up to the physician, if it's a minor and parents lobby hard then many docs will do it. I'm a psych RN, fwiw.
It's worth a lot ... I've suggested that they talk with a doctor or lawyer friend (surely they've got one of each in a small town where they live) and I did mention the PEC issue. I've done what I know to do but it hurts seeing them in this situation.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 1:39 pm to tiger91
Had a family member like her. She ripped my cousin to threads after twenty years. Dude has never been the same.
I went through an ugly divorce; but I never reached the fathoms of hell that my cousin experienced with a mentally checked out woman.
I went through an ugly divorce; but I never reached the fathoms of hell that my cousin experienced with a mentally checked out woman.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 1:39 pm to tiger91
They need to contact the Coroner's Office, this is one of their functions
Posted on 12/26/15 at 1:40 pm to Errerrerrwere
This couple got married November last year. And I didn't think about the coroner.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 1:41 pm to tiger91
Be careful. I wouldn't go into too much detail on here. She may post here
Posted on 12/26/15 at 1:44 pm to Chappy
Coroner's office can be used to file an OPC, which allows the police to pick up someone and have them brought to an ER and evaluated by a physician or NP. A PEC is signed by the MD and holds a person up to 72 hours or until they can be evaluated by a psychiatrist. Once someone is PEC'd, the coroner's office is contacted and the coroner will come evaluate the pt. They can sign a CEC(coroner's emergency certificate) which holds the pt up to 15 days from the time that the PEC(not CEC) was signed.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 1:46 pm to tiger91
Then hopefully someone explains to him that psychiatrists rarely treat and have the ability to do so with people like this.
This is how it will be for the rest of his life.
If it is a cluster B disorder (violence, potential drug use, depression), then they have to have allot of $$$ to treat it.
Brandon Marshall has done well after being diagnosed with his disorder; but he's one of the best athletes in the NFL who has the money to spend on Dialectal Behavior Treatment.
Tell him to run.
This is how it will be for the rest of his life.
If it is a cluster B disorder (violence, potential drug use, depression), then they have to have allot of $$$ to treat it.
Brandon Marshall has done well after being diagnosed with his disorder; but he's one of the best athletes in the NFL who has the money to spend on Dialectal Behavior Treatment.
Tell him to run.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 1:47 pm to tiger91
Sounds like she needs the 72 hr eval and detox.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 1:56 pm to LSU1NSEC
Thanks again everyone.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 2:30 pm to tiger91
They have to be either suicidal, homicidal, or gravely disabled AND unwilling to seek voluntary care in order to place someone under a PEC. What constitutes those things is up to some interpretation. Then they are held for up to 72 hours until they are evaluated by either the coroner or a psychiatrist who decides if they require a longer term commitment.
You should also read about an order of protective custody which can be initiated by family members through your local coroner's office.
The best way to go about it before any of this is to try to convince them to seek help on there own, but it sounds like you have already tried that. Good luck, sounds like a shitty situation.
You should also read about an order of protective custody which can be initiated by family members through your local coroner's office.
The best way to go about it before any of this is to try to convince them to seek help on there own, but it sounds like you have already tried that. Good luck, sounds like a shitty situation.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 2:32 pm to SW2SCLA
quote:Guess I should have read the second page before replying. This is all correct.
Coroner's office can be used to file an OPC, which allows the police to pick up someone and have them brought to an ER and evaluated by a physician or NP. A PEC is signed by the MD and holds a person up to 72 hours or until they can be evaluated by a psychiatrist. Once someone is PEC'd, the coroner's office is contacted and the coroner will come evaluate the pt. They can sign a CEC(coroner's emergency certificate) which holds the pt up to 15 days from the time that the PEC(not CEC) was signed.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 2:43 pm to tiger91
That is a terrible situation.
The answer is simple.
1. It varies from state to state.
2. It varies from county to county.
3. It varies from judge/magistrate to judge/magistrate.
4. It varies from ER to ER.
5. It varies from one psychiatrist on call to another.
The Mental health laws are written to overwhelming protect an individual's rights to refuse treatment no matter how out of control they act.
I would recommend involving the police when violence occurs. Once charges are filed, most patients get "aware and receptive" to mental health intervention.
The answer is simple.
1. It varies from state to state.
2. It varies from county to county.
3. It varies from judge/magistrate to judge/magistrate.
4. It varies from ER to ER.
5. It varies from one psychiatrist on call to another.
The Mental health laws are written to overwhelming protect an individual's rights to refuse treatment no matter how out of control they act.
I would recommend involving the police when violence occurs. Once charges are filed, most patients get "aware and receptive" to mental health intervention.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 2:48 pm to SW2SCLA
What SW2SCLA said. I'm an ER RN and it depends on the ER physician working at that time. The problem with PECs is they stay on your permanent record your whole adult life so some MDs are hesitant to give them out unless absolutely necessary. And I've seen others sling them out like stripper flyers on a Vegas strip.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 3:09 pm to tiger91
Posted on 12/26/15 at 3:11 pm to CMPunkBITW
When I first got into this line of work it amazed me how varied different docs are in who they and will not PEC.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 3:38 pm to GEAUXT
quote:
ou really can't PEC unless they're a danger
Incorrect.
1- danger to self
2- danger to others
3- Gravely disabled.
Of course they have to be mentally ill or have substance abuse.and unwilling or unable to volunteer to go
Completed by an MD or psychologist (PhD or PsyD)
Those are the requirements in the LA statute.
This post was edited on 12/26/15 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 12/26/15 at 3:38 pm to SW2SCLA
quote:
Coroner's office can be used to file an OPC, which allows the police to pick up someone and have them brought to an ER and evaluated by a physician or NP. A PEC is signed by the MD and holds a person up to 72 hours or until they can be evaluated by a psychiatrist. Once someone is PEC'd, the coroner's office is contacted and the coroner will come evaluate the pt. They can sign a CEC(coroner's emergency certificate) which holds the pt up to 15 days from the time that the PEC(not CEC) was signed.
This is the right answer. Options are basically either ER or Coroner's office if the person is not willing to go to treatment on their own.
None of those is easy. In some states there are laws which make it easier to compel mental health treatment then in Louisiana. It's a fine balancing act between getting treatment and preserving the rights of the individual who is mentally ill.
Posted on 12/26/15 at 3:46 pm to tiger91
I can PEC someone as a psychologist if they are a danger to themselves or an identifiable other. For someone with active suicidal intent, not just thoughts with no intent, I would first try to get them to voluntarily go to the ER. If they refused, I would then have them admitted. I've come across this twice so far in my career and both individuals agreed to let me walk them over to the ER, so no problem.
If someone tells me they are planning to kill someone and they identify whom this person is, my duty is to contact not only the police but also the person they are targeting. See the Tarasoff case on this issue. Most states have established their laws based on this case.
If someone tells me they are planning to kill someone and they identify whom this person is, my duty is to contact not only the police but also the person they are targeting. See the Tarasoff case on this issue. Most states have established their laws based on this case.
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