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re: Why are homeownership rates precipitously declining?

Posted on 8/31/16 at 2:10 pm to
Posted by lsupride87
Member since Dec 2007
94889 posts
Posted on 8/31/16 at 2:10 pm to
quote:

My father put 6 kids through school and traveled with them as upper middle class small business owner and I bet he never took home more than 40k a year. I do essentially the same business for many times more than 40. It's all relative.
It isnt close at all to being relative. Tuition cost have risen 1000x the rate of inflation. Housing cost have had a similiar increase. If it was "all relative," housing and tuition would have stayed steady with inflation. They havent, they have passed inflation at warp speed
This post was edited on 8/31/16 at 2:11 pm
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20396 posts
Posted on 8/31/16 at 2:15 pm to
quote:

By the time everyone realizes a bubble is a bubble it is too late.


Not really. The 2008 housing bubble a lot of people saw it coming. There were people making $50k buying $500k+ houses. The house across the street from me was in the newspaper because it sold 4 times in the same year, it started as a lot at $180k and sold the 4th time as a house for $500k+ I don't remember. It was stupid. I saw it coming, my dad bought a townhome investment for $180k and I told him no one can afford those payments long term, they are now selling for $80k and have section 8.

There are plenty of things to worry about, but if you are smart about it and buy a house within your means with a 15 year mortgage that you can afford owning a home is a by and large a good investment.
Posted by NOLA Tiger
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2006
824 posts
Posted on 8/31/16 at 2:35 pm to
I'm not a baby boomer and definitely do not blame them or anyone else for the current state of things. I believe in a free market and being able to choose what I consume. If tuition is too high why pay it. Go do something else. It never makes sense to me why someone would borrow $200K to pursue a $50K/yr job (which by the way could be managed over time with financial discipline). Go borrow $200K or less and start a business. We have become an entitled, look at me on social media culture. I would imagine the young adults of just 20-30 years ago would look at typical monthly expenses for the average young adult today and see many unnecessary recurring expenses.
Posted by CorporateTiger
Member since Aug 2014
10700 posts
Posted on 8/31/16 at 2:44 pm to
quote:

The 2008 housing bubble a lot of people saw it coming.


A certain few people did. Those few made a shitload of money precisely because so many people were buying into the bubble. You asserted twice in that post that the 2008 was some blindingly obvious thing coming. That simply isn't true, you are talking about an event that wiped multiple major financial institutions and put most others on extremely shaky footing. You are then asserting that it was totally obvious that this was going to happen. If it was those institutions would not have had the long exposure on housing that they did.

If you actually saw that coming go get yourself a job on Wall St. You can make a ton of money predicting the next obvious bubble.

quote:

if you are smart about it and buy a house within your means with a 15 year mortgage that you can afford owning a home is a by and large a good investment.


The thing you aren't getting is that this statement is loaded with assumptions (that are increasingly incorrect) and that the ultimate investment is increasingly slim. You are talking about making a 15-30 year investment here, which often comes at the expense of short term options and investments.

The situation you are describing was a "great investment" for so many people because housing costs have increased dramatically for decades and decades until '08. That is a big assumption to make going out to saw 2036 or 2046.
L
This post was edited on 8/31/16 at 2:46 pm
Posted by CorporateTiger
Member since Aug 2014
10700 posts
Posted on 8/31/16 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

Go borrow $200K or less and start a business.


For 98-99% of people taking 200K in loans to get a 50k/year job is a better investment.

quote:

We have become an entitled, look at me on social media culture. I would imagine the young adults of just 20-30 years ago would look at typical monthly expenses for the average young adult today and see many unnecessary recurring expenses.


Yeah young people in the '80's and '90's lived of beans and rice while sitting on a sawdust floor.

Cut me a fricking break with this shite. Every generation spends on non-essentials and I've never seen one shred of statistical evidence to back up the notions that millennials spend more than previous generations on non-essentials (even though that would relatively easy to prove/show)
Posted by jennBN
Member since Jun 2010
3136 posts
Posted on 8/31/16 at 2:54 pm to
I would say millennial a spend less. Hence our economy having less disposable income expenditures. I think millennial a watched their parents and learned that debt is bad. They also watched the crash of the housing market and may not be interested in taking that risk.
Posted by CorporateTiger
Member since Aug 2014
10700 posts
Posted on 8/31/16 at 2:58 pm to
The simple fact of spiraling student debt significantly impairs millennial spending on non-essentials as a percentage of income.

(1) housing costs rise faster than inflation plus (2) student debt rises taster than inflation plus (3) wages remaining stagnant means that the amount of free cash to spend on non-essentials goes down. Unless someone can explain where this magical money is coming from?
Posted by colorchangintiger
Dan Carlin
Member since Nov 2005
30979 posts
Posted on 8/31/16 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

the pussification of american continues.


Specialization is the Capitalists way!
Posted by jennBN
Member since Jun 2010
3136 posts
Posted on 8/31/16 at 3:04 pm to
I blame my inability to purchase solely on the Chinese. But I am not a millennial.
Posted by NOLA Tiger
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2006
824 posts
Posted on 8/31/16 at 3:20 pm to
Or go to trade school and borrow less to earn more. There are other options.
As for reducing monthly expenses, what does the average person spend on their cell phone and dining expenses each month compared to the 80's and 90's. Current college campuses are a perfect example of the supply and demand of excess, where students have state of the art facilities and live in apartments instead of dorms. Colleges are offering the add ons and everyone is consuming. Why would there be mounting student debt from LSU grads in the past 5 years with TOPS in place to defray the cost of tuition? Because it has become an entitlement.
Not everyone should go to college and buying a home is not an investment. People that make bad decisions should own them and not blame everyone else.
Posted by CorporateTiger
Member since Aug 2014
10700 posts
Posted on 8/31/16 at 3:35 pm to
quote:

Or go to trade school and borrow less to earn more. There are other options.


Certainly there are other options, I'm just saying that everyone starting a business is a horrible idea.

quote:

As for reducing monthly expenses, what does the average person spend on their cell phone and dining expenses each month compared to the 80's and 90's.


I don't have the information in front of me, but you are making the assertion that millennials spend more on non-essentials. Can you provide anything to back that up?

quote:

Current college campuses are a perfect example of the supply and demand of excess, where students have state of the art facilities and live in apartments instead of dorms.


Based on my experience at LSU you don't actually save much of anything by living in a dorm. LSU bled that pig dry until the cost of an apartment were about on or or cheaper than some dorms.

quote:

Why would there be mounting student debt from LSU grads in the past 5 years with TOPS in place to defray the cost of tuition? Because it has become an entitlement.


Because LSU and TOPS are but a small fraction of the overall millennial population. LSU grads actually have a pretty good deal (until TOPs runs out), but using this as some big point about millennials nationwide is stupid.

Also TOPs is another program (like federal backed student loans) that has lead to the current situation. LSU raises tuition like crazy selling students on the idea that TOPs makes it free, until your GPA comes in low (or TOPs runs out, and then guess what).

quote:

Not everyone should go to college and buying a home is not an investment


Agreed.
Posted by Overbrook
Member since May 2013
6078 posts
Posted on 8/31/16 at 4:09 pm to
We live in a more mobile society and home ownership is simply not a great financial investment. People don't keep jobs for 30 years, they move and the house can become a burden. The true value of a home is not of investment, but of having a nice place to live with a yard. Home ownership has been pushed by the government for good reason, however: it is forced savings. But many people would be better off investing the down payment, paying rent, and investing the excess of what a mortgage would be over rent. Few have the discipline to do that however.

No surprise, however, that the right wingers blame the poor (as always) and Obama. These are the same characters that applauded Bush's policies that crashed the stock market to smithereens and put this nation into a massive recession.
This post was edited on 8/31/16 at 4:11 pm
Posted by Paul Allen
Montauk, NY
Member since Nov 2007
75148 posts
Posted on 8/31/16 at 4:36 pm to
Well said
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