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Was it possible for the South to win the Civil War?
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:26 am
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:26 am
I thoroughly enjoyed the WW2 thread we had going on here earlier in the week. I thought I'd try and get another historical discussion going on here.
So, the question is in the thread title. Given the massive discrepancy between North and South in manpower, industrial capacity, and naval capability, was a Southern victory ever a legitimate possibility?
So, the question is in the thread title. Given the massive discrepancy between North and South in manpower, industrial capacity, and naval capability, was a Southern victory ever a legitimate possibility?
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:27 am to TheTideMustRoll
Raw materials to fight the industrialized north would have been difficult steel & lead
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:27 am to TheTideMustRoll
Good luck to anyone trying to convince my father-in-law that they didn't.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:29 am to TheTideMustRoll
No. For all the reasons you mentioned. They would've needed a strong alliance with a foreign power to send troops and such.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:30 am to TheTideMustRoll
That's weird, I don't think we've ever had a thread like this before here...
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:31 am to TheTideMustRoll
They almost did. The North was losing their taste for the war due to decisive wins by the South. A major win in the North would have been a huge blow to the American public's morale and support for the war.
To beat America you have to destroy the public support of the war. Has always been the case.
The North had major leadership issues that delayed things. If they had their shite together earlier in the war it probably wouldn't have lasted more than 2 or 3 years. The Confederates had a major disadvantage in population and resources, no doubt; but they were damn near flawless at taking advantage of the North's leadership issues at the beginning.
To beat America you have to destroy the public support of the war. Has always been the case.
The North had major leadership issues that delayed things. If they had their shite together earlier in the war it probably wouldn't have lasted more than 2 or 3 years. The Confederates had a major disadvantage in population and resources, no doubt; but they were damn near flawless at taking advantage of the North's leadership issues at the beginning.
This post was edited on 1/13/17 at 7:41 am
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:31 am to TheTideMustRoll
I don't know, but if you've ever been to the Vicksburg Military Park you'd see some of the most difficult terrain a battle has ever taken place on.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:32 am to TheTideMustRoll
No, Lincoln was committed and in his mind it was a holy war. Even a big win at Gettysburg and the Union still has nearly a 2-1 ratio in personnel. Not in the cards.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:36 am to Lakeboy7
quote:
No, Lincoln was committed and in his mind it was a holy war. Even a big win at Gettysburg and the Union still has nearly a 2-1 ratio in personnel. Not in the cards.
If the North lost at Gettysburg they probably would have lost some battles after that as well. Lincoln wouldn't have beaten McClellan in the 1864 election, he ran on the platform of allowing Southern succession to end the war. Even with a Northern win at Gettysburg, it took a win at Vicksburg to instill confidence in the Americans that they could indeed win.
I agree that if Lincoln wins in 1864 the war would have lingered and the South had a disadvantage in a war of attrition. No Lincoln, no war IMO.
This post was edited on 1/13/17 at 7:42 am
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:36 am to TheTideMustRoll
No.
The war in the western Confederacy was basically over before it began. While Lee was fighting in Virginia...Grant, Sherman, and company were wrecking shite.
The war in the western Confederacy was basically over before it began. While Lee was fighting in Virginia...Grant, Sherman, and company were wrecking shite.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:38 am to Lakeboy7
Yes it was possible but only if the North decided the price was to steep and a long bloody war was not worth it.
When Lincoln decided he would fight and win no matter the number of lives lost it was just a matter of time.
When Lincoln decided he would fight and win no matter the number of lives lost it was just a matter of time.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:38 am to TheTideMustRoll
The South was very close to taking DC after Manassas Junction/Bull Run. Had they went ahead and done so, they probably win.
But the longer they stretched it out, the North's superior advantage in industrial capacity took over.
But the longer they stretched it out, the North's superior advantage in industrial capacity took over.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:39 am to TheTideMustRoll
One out of every four union soilders were immigrants. Cut them out and everyone would still be whistling Dixie.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:39 am to TheTideMustRoll
Had the South been committed to fighting a guerrilla war instead of large, open-field battles in the Napoleonic tradition, I believe they would have won. Remember, General George McClellan ran again Lincoln in the election of 1864 as the anti-war candidate. I believe if the South had demonstrated that this was going to be a 10-15 year defensive conflict, McClellan would have won the election and a peace agreement would have been reached.
This post was edited on 1/13/17 at 7:40 am
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:41 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
Remember, General George McClellan ran again Lincoln in the election of 1864 as the anti-war candidate.
The Union victory at Atlanta basically doomed McClellan's anti-war platform. It showed that the war's end was in sight and that the Confederacy had nothing left.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:43 am to GetCocky11
According to Granny from the Beverly Hillbillies, we're just at halftime. Had the South taken DC after bull run then yes.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:43 am to TheTideMustRoll
I think there were really only two avenues for a Southern victory:
1. Recognition by and alliance with either Great Britain or France
2. A win by McClellan in the 1864 election
Number 1 was never really a possibility. Neither Great Britain nor France were much interested in allying with a nation that still permitted slavery. The South was in a Catch-22 situation here: to win the war they needed foreign assistance, but to convince either of those two countries to help them, they would basically have had to win the war by themselves to prove their viability.
Number 2 was certainly possible, and in fact might have happened if Atlanta had not fallen just prior to the election. But, for the South to still be in the war and seem a threat by that late date required them to more or less pitch a perfect game for the first three years of the war. At least in the East, they came as close as they could to doing so, and it still wasn't enough. I don't think it's realistic to say they could have done better than they historically did.
1. Recognition by and alliance with either Great Britain or France
2. A win by McClellan in the 1864 election
Number 1 was never really a possibility. Neither Great Britain nor France were much interested in allying with a nation that still permitted slavery. The South was in a Catch-22 situation here: to win the war they needed foreign assistance, but to convince either of those two countries to help them, they would basically have had to win the war by themselves to prove their viability.
Number 2 was certainly possible, and in fact might have happened if Atlanta had not fallen just prior to the election. But, for the South to still be in the war and seem a threat by that late date required them to more or less pitch a perfect game for the first three years of the war. At least in the East, they came as close as they could to doing so, and it still wasn't enough. I don't think it's realistic to say they could have done better than they historically did.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:46 am to TheTideMustRoll
Yes, the North would have accepted Southern independence if Lee could have captured Washington either time he tried to invade, but Southern losses at Antietam and Gettysburg sealed the fate of the South to be the shite hole it is today.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:47 am to TheTideMustRoll
When reading about the Civil War, I wonder what have happened if the Confederates would have succeeded at the Battle of Shiloh. Grant's and Sherman's careers may have been over in disgrace, and the war in that area may have gone a bit better for the South.
But without the quick capture of Washington in the early days of the war, a loss in the end for the South was inevitable.
But without the quick capture of Washington in the early days of the war, a loss in the end for the South was inevitable.
This post was edited on 1/13/17 at 7:49 am
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