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re: This is why Black Americans dont trust the police

Posted on 9/30/16 at 12:58 am to
Posted by Bad Medicine
Member since Aug 2014
3575 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 12:58 am to
There's legit concerns on both sides as to why they don't trust each other. Until people admit that and stop blaming it completely on the police and take some accountability nothing will ever change with this stuff
Posted by Evolved Simian
Bushwood Country Club
Member since Sep 2010
20515 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 1:01 am to
quote:

I can show you hundreds of unarmed black Americans murdered by policed with minimal prosecution.




No. You can't.
Posted by JohnnyKilroy
Cajun Navy Vice Admiral
Member since Oct 2012
35341 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 1:11 am to
quote:

Until people admit that and stop blaming it completely on the police and take some accountability nothing will ever change with this stuff


You do realize how rare it is for a cop to be criminally prosecuted for criminal acts right?

Politicians are probably the only group held less accountable for their actions in this country.
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
55480 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 1:14 am to
quote:

You do realize how rare it is for a cop to be criminally prosecuted for criminal acts right?



While I agree that this is more than likely the case, it's so, so hard to verify for obvious reasons.
Posted by TJGator1215
FL/TN
Member since Sep 2011
14174 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 1:14 am to
quote:

image: https://thefreethoughtproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/cops-never-prosecuted.jpg

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Police in the United States managed to escape prosecution when facing allegations they violated civil rights an incredible 96 percent of the time. This is almost the exact opposite of the conviction rate for everyone else, as normal citizens are are prosecuted at a rate of 93 percent.

The investigation by the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review (the Trib), based on an analysis of nearly 3 million federal records, found that from 1995 through 2015, federal prosecutors overwhelmingly opted not to pursue prosecution. Indeed, the 96 percent refusal to press charges sharply contrasts with the rejection rate for all other complaints — just 23 percent.





LINK


quote:

That point is clearly reflected in the number of police officers who were convicted on murder or manslaughter charges last year for fatally shooting a civilian in the line of duty.

In 2015, that number was zero.

And that's not unusual. No officers were convicted on such charges in 2014 either.

In fact, since 2005, there have only been 13 officers convicted of murder or manslaughter in fatal on-duty shootings, according to data provided to The Huffington Post by Philip Stinson, an associate professor of criminology at Ohio’s Bowling Green State University. Stinson's data doesn't include cases in which civilians died in police custody or were killed by other means, or those in which officers only faced lesser charges.

One of the last successful convictions came in 2013, when Culpeper Town, Virginia, police officer Daniel Harmon-Wright was sentenced to three years in jail for voluntary manslaughter charges in the slaying of Patricia Cook, an unarmed 54-year-old, a year earlier.




quote:

Of that total, prosecutors and grand juries around the nation each year have determined that around five of these cases involve misconduct worthy of manslaughter or murder charges. And in the end, the criminal justice system typically concludes that only around one shooting each year is consistent with manslaughter or murder.


LINK


quote:

Even when officers are convicted, the charges are often minimal. For example, Coleman Brackney, a Bella Vista, Oklahoma, police officer who was convicted of misdemeanor negligent homicide in 2010 after shooting an unarmed teen to death while in custody in his cruiser, went on to rejoin the police and was recently appointed chief of police in Sulphur Springs, Oklahoma.

LINK


quote:

As is the case with police shootingstatistics, comprehensive numbers on accusations of police misconduct are hard to come by. There is no national reporting requirement for such accusations; in fact, many places have laws to purposefully keep the details of misconduct investigations out of the public eye.



quote:

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Nevertheless, two nongovernmental sources stand out. A recent study out of Bowling Green State University — reported by TheWall Street Journal — identified 664 incidents from 2005 to 2011 in which police officers were arrested for having “pulled, pointed, held, or fired a gun and/or threatened someone with a gun.” These incidents resulted in 98 deaths. The most common “serious offenses” associated with these incidents are broken down below:


[quote]?


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Of the 71 arrests for murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, just 31 came when officers were on duty. That’s about four a year during the study period. As a reminder, the best-available evidence from the Killed By Police Facebook page points to about1,000 deaths each year caused by officers acting in the line of duty.

More general numbers on police misconduct come from National Police Misconduct Reporting Project(NPMRP), which collects data based on credible media reports (see its feed here). It was established by researcher David Packman in 2009, and operation of the database was transferred to the Cato Institute in spring 2012. Although the NPMRP continues to collect incidents, the most comprehensive and cataloged data comes from Packman’s original work. His key findings are largely laid out in a 2010 report.

In 2010, Packman identified 4,861 unique reports of police misconduct in the U.S. involving 6,613 officers. Almost 10 out of every 1,000 American officers were accused of some type of misconduct. For context, the 2010 violent crime rate was four crimes per 1,000 residents, and the larceny-theft rate was 20.1 per 1,000. Here’s a breakdown of the accusations by type:

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Excessive force was by far the most common type of accusation, and 15 percent involved firearms. There were 127 excessive force incidents reported that resulted in fatalities, and the majority of these (71 percent) were shootings.

But, as was the case with Darren Wilson, most accusations of misconduct — combining all categories — did not result in criminal charges. Of the more than 8,300 misconduct accusations (involving almost 11,000 officers) in Packman’s database from April 2009 through the end of 2010, 3,238 resulted in legal action. The chart below outlines how often these charges resulted in convictions and incarcerations, compared with the rates for felony defendants in the general population (in the 75 largest U.S. counties) collected by the Bureau of Justice Statistics in 2006.



LINK



This post was edited on 9/30/16 at 1:41 am
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
55480 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 1:19 am to


This image alone contradicts your assertion that cops get away with 95% of the crimes commit.

I'm not one to stump for police, and I recognize a lot of the problems that members of the public face with them (thanks, War on Drugs), but to generalize their actions in the same manner that others are decried for when describing group X is just as bad.
Posted by TJGator1215
FL/TN
Member since Sep 2011
14174 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 2:15 am to
quote:

One source, in a report called "Operation Ghetto Storm" says that in 2012 that of the 739 "Justified" shootings shown above from 2012,313 of them were Black.  44% of them or 136, were unarmed. 27% of them (83) were claimed by Law Enforcement to have Gun at the time of the shooting, but that could not be later confirmed or the "gun" was in fact, a toy or other non-lethal object. 20% of them (62) were confirmed to have been armed with a gun, knife or cutting tool.

LINK

97 unarmed blacks killed alone by LAPD and surrounding cops from 2010-14.

LINK
unarmed killed Georgiansby GA cops

100 unarmed blacks killed by cops in 2015

We won't know the full statistics until every department is forced to report every shooting.
This post was edited on 9/30/16 at 2:18 am
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
36115 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 2:19 am to
quote:


Being completely fair and honest... there's more than one way to interpret those statistics. You have your bias and interpret it as black people commit more crimes. Another person with a different bias looks at those stats and says that they show that black people don't necessarily commit more crimes. They are just charged with more crimes. You have to know more than just raw numbers without context to understand statistics. The truth is actually probably somewhere in between, and it isn't just hard facts as some people would like to pretend. Context is important to statistics. It isn't a hard science. But then again this is the OT, and the truth isn't actually important here.



Most crime occurs within racial groups. Poor blacks living in the inner city suffer dramatically higher rates of violent crime than average.

There are data to show that recreational drug use and stop and frisk use by police/prosecutors are more likely to be applied to black americans - even though recreational drug use rates are pretty much the same in whites and blacks. But the incidence of violent crime seems to be a dramatically different story.
Posted by Rebel
Graceland
Member since Jan 2005
131393 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 2:35 am to
Both cops were either fired or pressured to quit.

Seems to me black folks should trust the legal system.
Posted by TJGator1215
FL/TN
Member since Sep 2011
14174 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 2:42 am to
Great commentary on the logic behind black on black crime narrative:

quote:

A lot of the police shooting victims are just being stopped for traffic violations or some other petty, non-violent, offense.


quote:

The problem with this type of logic is that we assume that an entire group of people is responsible for the actions of some and that the entire group should be criminalized for it.

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country, one of which I happen to live in, that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.

So what is happening is that an entire group of people who overwhelmingly are not committing crime and are not guilty, end up being criminalized because of the logic that people have about this.

I will give a couple of quick examples here. First is the logic that if a person is stopped for a crime or suspected of committing a crime they are probably guilty. Actually this is not the case, there was a study done in New York City using Stop-and-Frisk data. This study actually resulted in Stop-and-Frisk being ruled unconstitutional by the New York Supreme Court, and what they found was that African Americans were more likely to be stopped by the police, they were also more likely to be roughed up by the police, to be frisked, physically assaulted by the police, but they were significantly less likely to have contraband on their person or actually be committing a crime at that particular time. So you had about 9 out of 10 of the Black men that were being stopped were not doing anything wrong. What is interesting to me, knowing the way that police operate personally and then also looking at the data, is that there are a lot of these points in time when the police interact with citizens that is never captured in the data.

Another point I would like to make here is that Philando Castile who was recently killed in St. Paul, Minnesota was stopped 50 times over the past fourteen years or so. The logic is that if you are stopped that much you obviously have to be committing some sort of crime. This is what is interesting about Philando Castile. He had never been convicted of violent crime, he was a legal gun owner, and according to the other employees and the children of the school where he worked he was a model employee, and he took classes learning how to deal with the police. This speaks to the fact that as much as we value politics of respectability in the Black community, they do not necessarily prevent people from being harmed by the police. So in many respects this is about Blackness being seen as guilty before due processes. The logic is that if the cops didn’t catch a Black person doing something today, they probably will one day, so who cares if this is happening today. The logic is that in being killed, if you are a Black person, is simply collateral damage. This is highly problematic.



LINK
Posted by TJGator1215
FL/TN
Member since Sep 2011
14174 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 2:42 am to
Lol ok. Then they'll get a job as a cop somewhere else. The cop even got a raise after his investigation started.
This post was edited on 9/30/16 at 2:45 am
Posted by gthog61
Irving, TX
Member since Nov 2009
71001 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 3:01 am to
The thread on why the police do not trust black people would be a lot longer.
Posted by molsusports
Member since Jul 2004
36115 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 3:08 am to
quote:

A lot of the police shooting victims are just being stopped for traffic violations or some other petty, non-violent, offense.



That is true. But it is true in the case of both white and black people shot by police.
Posted by TJGator1215
FL/TN
Member since Sep 2011
14174 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 3:25 am to
Very true.
Posted by Rebel
Graceland
Member since Jan 2005
131393 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 5:30 am to
quote:

Lol ok. Then they'll get a job as a cop somewhere else. The cop even got a raise after his investigation started.


Justice isn't enough for you?
Posted by tigersbh
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
10266 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 5:57 am to
Why wasn't this "unarmed black man" gunned down by the police? Could it be because he didn't attack them, and he complied with what they said to do?
Posted by DawgGONIT
Member since May 2015
2961 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 6:17 am to
quote:

If different races really commit crimes at the same clip, then holy shite, there are a lot more white robbers, assaulters, murderers, and rapists on the loose than I thought. Even account for some systemic discrimination, the parity in crimes per capita is astounding.
What is the crime rate of those Thugs up at wall street or in the white collar jobs? Look at what Hillary has gotten away with....treason....guess her color.
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
17499 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 6:20 am to
I thought it was because the dindus were law-abiding citizens.
Posted by TbirdSpur2010
ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
134026 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 6:23 am to
quote:

TJGator1215


You don't speak for me, puto.
Posted by TbirdSpur2010
ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
134026 posts
Posted on 9/30/16 at 6:34 am to
quote:

Look at what Hillary has gotten away with....treason....guess her color.


Then why are black people still going to vote for her in droves?
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