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Message
The Wealthy in Florence Today Are the Same Families as 600 Years Ago
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:21 pm
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:21 pm
LINK
i imagine there are a lot of similar stories across Europe
America is one of the few exceptions to this rule i'd imagine
quote:
The two economists — Guglielmo Barone and Sauro Mocetti of the Bank of Italy — compared data on Florentine taxpayers in 1427 against tax data in 2011. Because Italian surnames are highly regional and distinctive, they could compare the income of families with a certain surname today, to those with the same surname in 1427. They found that the occupations, income and wealth of those distant ancestors with the same surname can help predict the occupation, income and wealth of their descendants today.
quote:
The authors note that Italian surnames are especially good for this effort, because they are highly regional. While not every person with a certain surname in Florence today will be a descendant of the people with that name in 1427, it’s a good bet that most are. To see how these “families” had fared over the intervening six centuries, they compared the surnames against Florence’s 2011 tax records.
quote:
They find strong evidence that socioeconomic status is incredibly persistent. The wealthiest surnames in Florence today belong to families that, in 1429, were members of the shoemakers’ guild — at the 97th percentile of income. Descendants of members of the silk guild and descendants of attorneys — both at the 93rd percentile in 1427 — are among the wealthiest families today.
i imagine there are a lot of similar stories across Europe
America is one of the few exceptions to this rule i'd imagine
This post was edited on 5/20/16 at 6:22 pm
16
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
Duh. Merica is the only meritocracy
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:24 pm to SlowFlowPro
It chaps my arse how people in this country bitch and whine about how they are subjugated into poverty and preyed upon by the wealthy. America was the first country that allowed any personto earn a fortune, regardless of birthright, if you WORKED hard enough. This nation still affords more opportunity to earn wealth than any other on this earth.
This post was edited on 5/20/16 at 6:28 pm
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:25 pm to DelU249
quote:
Merica is the only meritocracy
soon to be "was"
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:26 pm to SlowFlowPro
If Peter the great had his way, Russia would be one too, but guess not
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:29 pm to SlowFlowPro
That's why everybody with any drive got the frick out when they could.
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:30 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
shite like this reminds me of the "America was Never Great" crowd
if America was never great, then where and when the hell was greatness?
if America was never great, then where and when the hell was greatness?
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
I always wondered about this....who is descended from the smaller lesser known kings of Europe...and what happened to their wealth. Its not surprising at all. The US isn't the same as this because the US hasn't been around for half as long...but i could definitely see the US being the same 300 more years from now. Kennedys, Gates, Hiltons, Trumps etc. I think Japan has started to combat this inheritance accumulation in the form of a harsh tax on inherited income. Its even caused some Japanese to move to other countries. As much as people want to say its anti-freedom, I find it to be a great measure for keeping the wealth fluid. Every generation has to make its own wealth instead of generations that simply live their entire life off the wealth of generations before them.
Im probably in the minority though.
Im probably in the minority though.
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
Eternal pessimists I guess.
Or they don't like relativism.
Ie America wasn't great, but it was great compared to every thing else.
Or they don't like relativism.
Ie America wasn't great, but it was great compared to every thing else.
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:34 pm to tiggerthetooth
Well, destroying wealth via the inheritance tax doesn't seem like a good idea to me when the goal is to create wealth.
Not to mention, wealth isn't a fixed pie.
Not to mention, wealth isn't a fixed pie.
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:34 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
The US isn't the same as this because the US hasn't been around for half as long...but i could definitely see the US being the same 300 more years from now. Kennedys, Gates, Hiltons, Trumps etc. I think Japan has started to combat this inheritance accumulation in the form of a harsh tax on inherited income. Its even caused some Japanese to move to other countries. As much as people want to say its anti-freedom, I find it to be a great measure for keeping the wealth fluid. Every generation has to make its own wealth instead of generations that simply live their entire life off the wealth of generations before them.
i get what you're saying, but
quote:
But they note their research is not focused on the super elite at the top 1% of income. Their finding is for the overall population. The entire top 33% of the income distribution in 1427 is likely to be wealthier today. This is a far broader group than Medici princes and dukes, with castles and estates to hand down through the centuries. This suggests that some 25 generations later, the hundreds of descendants of comfortable — but far-from-regal — leathermakers are likely to be doing quite well, and it’s not because they inherited great(x25)-grandpa’s shoes and belts, let alone his palaces.
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:35 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
Ie America wasn't great, but it was great compared to every thing else.
the attempt to make this irrelevant is just ridiculous insanity
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:37 pm to SlowFlowPro
Easy answer, Knights Templar
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:37 pm to HaveMercy
quote:
It chaps my arse how people in this country bitch and whine about how they are subjugated into poverty and preyed upon by the wealthy. America was the first country that allowed any personto earn a fortune, regardless of birthright, if you WORKED hard enough. This nation still affords more opportunity to earn wealth than any other on this earth.
Its only this way in America because the US is less than 250 years old. No one was born rich even in European countries. They all came into their riches through the obtainment of natural resources because it was widely available due to low population of earth, then most likely over time as the population grew, the resources got more and more used and wealth was gained. A thousand-aire 400 years ago, and the land they owned is easily a millionaire by today's wealth standards.
As I said. The US will likely end up on this same path. Its inevitable if the wealthy families are allowed better access to resources and assume more power as a result. The more time goes on, the more difficult it'll be to take the wealth back from the few who have it. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer.
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:38 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
That's why everybody with any drive got the frick out when they could.
This. My great grandparents and grandmother immigrated from Sicily. I can safely say that the family is doing far better than if they stayed.
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:42 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
Its only this way in America because the US is less than 250 years old. No one was born rich even in European countries
bruh our "Founding Fathers" were mostly aristocrats from upper class, European lineage
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:42 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:
Sicily.
Florence and Sicily are nothing alike other than the country they are in.
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:42 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
Well, destroying wealth via the inheritance tax doesn't seem like a good idea to me when the goal is to create wealth.
Not to mention, wealth isn't a fixed pie.
If the wealth accumulated by others is put back into the economy, then I understand the motivation for not wanting such a tax. Think about if you're apart of a rich family that owns masses of land, or stocks in a few powerful companies. They could sit on that for how long? What is the motivation for them to put their money into the economy? Even now, you have companies putting massive amounts of cash on off-shore accounts.....and thats just the big companies...not telling how many private citizen accounts are being held in off-shore accounts. Thats the type of thing that doesn't help spread the wealth. I'm not saying its a huge thing, but its a clear example of those with power being secretly reluctant to but hundreds of billions of dollars into our country...its sad to think about really.
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:45 pm to DelU249
quote:I was in Vegas last week. I don't think so.
Duh. Merica is the only meritocracy
Posted on 5/20/16 at 6:46 pm to tiggerthetooth
quote:
If the wealth accumulated by others is put back into the economy, then I understand the motivation for not wanting such a tax.
quote:
if you're apart of a rich family that owns masses of land, or stocks in a few powerful companies.
think about that
quote:
What is the motivation for them to put their money into the economy?
what do you think rich people do with their money? stuff it in huge mattresses? create a gold coin swimming pool like scrooge mcduck?
quote:
Even now, you have companies putting massive amounts of cash on off-shore accounts.
the illicit behavior in this arena is earned profits, which isn't inherited wealth
quote:
I'm not saying its a huge thing, but its a clear example of those with power being secretly reluctant to but hundreds of billions of dollars into our country
even though i'm responding to a bad hypothetical, if they are willing to act this way with profits, why do you think they'll allow this to occur with their inheritences?
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