- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Tennessee student suspended for saying "bless you" after sneeze
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:05 am to WDE24
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:05 am to WDE24
quote:
You are trying to hard to pigeon hole the issue. It may be religious and heart felt to some, while others it is merely "good manners."
It's more me tiring of always arguing with a moving goal post when it comes to religious topics to be honest. I realize that different people would view this differently...both religious and non religious. But if we can't really agree on the nature of what it is, can it really be argued that it's some affront to this girl's religious liberty?
quote:
The crux of the issue is more the teachers motivation for banning the phrase, imo.
Yeah...I'd agree. But I go back to my statement about the teacher. I've yet to run across a middle aged black woman atheist. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but I find it REALLY REALLY hard to believe this woman was motivated by her religious bigotry. Again...I might be wrong, but this really does appear to me to have much more to do with this teacher looking to instill some sort of discipline in her class and doing it in a fairly dumb and broad brushed way. Her problem is that she broad-brushed a a girl who is very religious and felt the need to amke an issue out of something silly.
2
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:08 am to AnonymousTiger
Someone want to point out to me where in the bible it talks about saying "bless you" after someone sneezes? This fiasco is BS for both sides. It's stupid to ban saying "bless you" after someone sneezes, but it's also stupid that people are taking this as an attack on their religion. Everyone these days is trying to find something to feel persecuted about so they can feel special. Get over it and move on with your life.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:11 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:Yes. It certainly can. The use of peyote is religious to some and just a high for others.
But if we can't really agree on the nature of what it is, can it really be argued that it's some affront to this girl's religious liberty?
quote:I'm sure there are many.
I've yet to run across a middle aged black woman atheist.
quote:Very possible. It is hard to tell from the limited information we have what the teacher's motivation was.
but this really does appear to me to have much more to do with this teacher looking to instill some sort of discipline in her class and doing it in a fairly dumb and broad brushed way. Her problem is that she broad-brushed a a girl who is very religious and felt the need to amke an issue out of something silly.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:13 am to BottomlandBrew
quote:
Someone want to point out to me where in the bible it talks about saying "bless you" after someone sneezes?
No where...it's a cultural thing dating back long before The Bible. It's roots are superstitious...believing that saying something about supernatural intervention when sneezing can help with illnesses going so far as helping to prevent the devil from entering your body as your soul departs for a moment when you sneeze...which makes me wonder why we don't say it when we burb or fart, but whatever. Guess the soul only goes out through the nose...
But no...there is nothing inherently Christian about it and being asked not to say it does not put any strain on anyone's faith...especially if the reason given is legit.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:13 am to BottomlandBrew
quote:Luke 6:28 says that we should bless those that curse us. In the Hebrew dialect at the time it is believed the Gospel of Luke was penned, the Hebrew term for curse was also the term for sneeze.
Someone want to point out to me where in the bible it talks about saying "bless you" after someone sneezes?
:themoreyouknow:
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 9:15 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:14 am to Teufelhunden
quote:
Got to be more to it. If it turns into a "bless you" party after anyone in the class sneezes then I can see how it can get distracting for the teacher.
We used to do this back in middle school
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:18 am to WDE24
quote:
we should bless those that curse us...the term for curse was also the term for sneeze
So that would mean we should bless those that sneezes us. That doesn't make any sense. One sneezes, not sneezes someone. Sounds like you're making a stretch.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:19 am to Wayne Campbell
quote:
Maybe the other student didn't appreciate having her religious beliefs shoved down their throat.
Really?
I wish atheists like you were clearly definable because I would say it without the sneeze just to see one of you cry like a little bitch.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:20 am to WDE24
quote:
Yes. It certainly can. The use of peyote is religious to some and just a high for others.
So...if a student is of a religion that uses peyote in their ceremonies, she can use it at school...despite the various rules and laws prohibiting drugs at school? I'm thinking no.
Not to mention, saying bless you is not some religious tenant of any faith. This is reaching here.
quote:
I'm sure there are many.
Define many. haha there may be, like...7. Maybe 8. But seriously, to assume that this woman's actions are based on her dislike of religion seems an unlikely stance to take given that it's coming from a group that seems to understand that profiling works. The vast majority of middle aged black women are not running around stomping on religion. In my experience, if I NEEDED to have someone tell me "Have a blessed day," I'm running straight to the closest middle aged black woman I see. I won't get very far before I hear it.
But hey...maybe she's an outlier.
quote:
It is hard to tell from the limited information we have what the teacher's motivation was.
Agreed...which is why I find it a bit absurd that the teacher is immediately thrown under the bus and the girl lauded as Joan of Ark...for arguing in a classroom about being able to say "Bless you" after a sneeze.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:20 am to BottomlandBrew
You need to retake remedial Hebrew and learn your conjugation. Do I have to spell everything out for you?
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:23 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:I didn't say anything close to that. It was an example of something that can be an exercise of religious expression for some and not to others. You changing the context is silly. You are better than that.
So...if a student is of a religion that uses peyote in their ceremonies, she can use it at school...despite the various rules and laws prohibiting drugs at school? I'm thinking no.
ETA: It is like kneeling on a mat facing a certain direction is a religious event for some and for others it is just stretching before Zumba class begins.
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 9:30 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:36 am to WDE24
quote:
You changing the context is silly. You are better than that.
No...I asked if it could be seen as an affront to the girls' religious liberty. While I did not specifically say AT SCHOOL, I thought it was implied, since that is what we are talking about.
As such, when you mentioned peyote, I mentioned school...since, again, that is what we're talking about.
Given there is no faith based tenet to have to say bless you, but only a more social one where it's deemed rude NOT TO, can it really be seen as some affront to a student's religious liberty to be told not to blurt it out in class...regardless of why? I'd say no.
While an atheist, I agree with the ACLU and really do want to protect a student's right to religious free expression. I'd argue in favor of her right to say grace before her meal, or to say a quiet prayer before a test...to read her Bible if she wanted during free reading time, etc.
But being asked not to blurt out bless you everything someone sneezes seems like a sily place to plant a religious persecution flag...but whatever.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:40 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
And, I'll ask again since no one seems interested in being pinned down...is this even a religious issue? Is saying bless you religious at it's heart? Is it merely a saying that has been secularized despite it's religious origins? Many here seem to think it's not religious...until they want to defend the girl, then it's a religious issue.
All around the world, in every religion, a blessing is a boon from the gods.
Saying "God bless you" is definitely Christian, while merely saying "Bless you" can work for any religion. That being said, the practice was started by early Christians who believed that when you sneezed, your body was expelling demons, and if no one nearby said, "God bless you" the demon(s) could get back in your body.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:46 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:You asked if it could be argued to be an affront if we couldn't agree on what this expression was. I pointed out that it could be so argued because this could be a religious expression to some, while completely secular for others.
.I asked if it could be seen as an affront to the girls' religious liberty.
quote:We weren't talking about school in that context, we were talking about whether saying "bless you" could be seen as religious.
when you mentioned peyote, I mentioned school...since, again, that is what we're talking about.
quote:This isn't the constitutional standard, it is the argument you have been seeking to pigeon hole the whole time.
Given there is no faith based tenet to have to say bless you
quote:It is. However, if the motivation for the restriction is because the teacher doesn't like "godly" speech, then it isn't quite as silly.
But being asked not to blurt out bless you everything someone sneezes seems like a sily place to plant a religious persecution flag...but whatever.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:02 am to WDE24
quote:
We weren't talking about school in that context, we were talking about whether saying "bless you" could be seen as religious.
It's what I was talking about since that is what this entire story is about.
Me asking about whether or not saying "Bless you" is even seen as religious has far more to do with getting many of our religious folks here to actually pick a point and stick with it for once. It gets to be fatiguing arguing with multiple posters who themselves can't agree on a position but who seem to want to argue with me...as if I'm on the opposite...of two different sides! haha
In this case, we've had both religious AND non religious posters declare that saying Bless You is not religious and more cultural. We've also had many that have wanted to argue that it's clearly religious and therefore want to argue it from a constitutionality stand point. Honestly...I don't care, but it would be easier to have this discussion if we could agree.
If it's as you say and it can be all things to all people, then I'm not quite sure I get the outrage. Not even the religious will agree it's religious in nature, so why should I care?
quote:
However, if the motivation for the restriction is because the teacher doesn't like "godly" speech, then it isn't quite as silly.
Maybe...and if you want to hang your hat on this middle aged black woman being some outlier then feel free. Until I actually see something NOT written by this girl's side that suggests this teacher did this to stomp on religion, there is no reason at all to assume she did.
Alright...I'd love to continue this (given it has yet to catch an anchor or be deleted entirely) but I've got work to do. Had fun!
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:07 am to AnonymousTiger
First comment to article:
quote:
This story is about to get updated. She was not suspended. Period. Not in-school suspension either. The class was told to be quiet. After a sneeze someone yelled out something that the teacher never understood. The teacher asked who said that (mind you, still not sure what was said just that someone wasn't being quiet) & the girl said "me". The teacher reminded her that everyone was to be quiet. That's when the student made it about religion AND WALKED OUT OF THE CLASSROOM ON HER OWN.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:17 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:I know. That is what I pointed out. You wanted to pigeon hole it.
Me asking about whether or not saying "Bless you" is even seen as religious has far more to do with getting many of our religious folks here to actually pick a point and stick with it for once.
quote:I'm not sure you or anyone should. But, like I said, if the teacher's motivation for banning the expression was based on its religious undertones, it is potentially a constitutional issue.
Not even the religious will agree it's religious in nature, so why should I care?
quote:I haven't hung my hat on anything.
.and if you want to hang your hat on this middle aged black woman being some outlier then feel free.
quote:I agree and I haven't done so.
Until I actually see something NOT written by this girl's side that suggests this teacher did this to stomp on religion, there is no reason at all to assume she did.
I think you and I have mostly been in agreement as to this particular incident.
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 10:18 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:39 am to Wayne Campbell
quote:
Maybe the other student didn't appreciate having her religious beliefs shoved down their throat.
If you as a person are that sensitive to someone saying "bless you" when you sneeze to be polite, then you need to kill yourself. That's absurd.
If someone walked up to me and said "Allah bless you" or some other religious saying, I'd just say thank you and be on my way. People need to get a grip.
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 10:41 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:01 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
I've yet to run across a middle aged black woman atheist.
Really? I've seen a few in college classrooms.
I guess science courses bring out the atheist professors.
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 11:03 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:14 am to shiftworker
quote:
Maybe if she had said frick you instead all would be well.
I consider myself a fairly religious person, but, I NEVER say "Bless You", when someone sneezes.
I do say "Scatter Booger" though. My eight year old granddaughter hit me up with that reply when she heard me sneeze, just this past weekend. They do listen.
Page 7 of 8
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News