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Message
1
Posted on 12/29/14 at 1:57 pm to Salmon
A well-written, thoughtful opening post deserves a similar reply.
I think you should have a discussion with the family members who are submitting religious gifts, and diplomatically explain to them that you and your wife are responsible for your child's religious education.
I would not allow the conversation to morph into an extended one about your religious beliefs. Simply say "we will guide our child in a appropriate way, but we prefer to do so in a private manner."
I think you should have a discussion with the family members who are submitting religious gifts, and diplomatically explain to them that you and your wife are responsible for your child's religious education.
I would not allow the conversation to morph into an extended one about your religious beliefs. Simply say "we will guide our child in a appropriate way, but we prefer to do so in a private manner."
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:00 pm to chinhoyang
quote:
chinhoyang
Good post. Chances are, they don't even realize what they're doing is imposing in any way. I mean, we know the etiquette about discussing religion at dinner parties and stuff with strangers, but it probably has never crossed their mind that it is still a private matter with family members as well.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:01 pm to Salmon
Are you an atheist? Agnostic or just don't like hell. You can be a Universalist/Unitarian and believe everyone goes to heaven and Jesus is just another way to interact with God. If your view is "I don't believe what your grandparents believe" your kid will smell your flawed bitterness.
I say start consolidating just what you do believe
I say start consolidating just what you do believe
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:05 pm to Salmon
I think where non-religious parents fall into trouble is when they approach raising their children with respect to religion the same way the religious do. That is, they make an active effort to tell the child all the problems with religion and that smart people don't believe in it. Regardless of the facts, people don't look at things objectively when raised to staunchly believe something. Even if there is no good objective reason to believe in God, that wont be the reason for their non-belief. It will be because mom and dad told them so.
At that point, the child is being "indoctrinated" to view religious belief as an inherent negative and is arguably just as biased homes as those raised in religious ones. granted, the fear of eternal punishment is a greater motivator but in principle its similar.
At that point, the child is being "indoctrinated" to view religious belief as an inherent negative and is arguably just as biased homes as those raised in religious ones. granted, the fear of eternal punishment is a greater motivator but in principle its similar.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:06 pm to Tiger Ryno
quote:
It's not too late for you man.
If by this you mean it's not too late to "see the light" ... I might only be speaking for myself, but most people who aren't religious didn't just wake up one day and decide to not be religious. For me, it's something that caused a lot of family strife and personal conflict. I thought a lot about it, read a lot, consulted with people I respect.
Saying things like "it's not too late" to someone who has probably looked into the subject as much or more than you is completely smug and arrogant.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:08 pm to Meauxjeaux
It depends on your situation with your family and their attitudes. If something isn't an issue then why push it to be an issue. Certain people will not be accepting of other's beliefs. I don't see why you consider it the right thing to intentionally broadcast ideas at people knowing that it will hurt them and damage your relationship with them while getting no one anywhere. With very Baptist grandparents who very much believe in the burning flames of hell, this is exactly what would happen.
I don't lie to them anymore because I'm not a child anymore, but there's no point in bringing it up. My relationship with my extended family is best leaving religion out of it. We have other things to deal with.
I don't think you realize the stigma of being vocally atheist/non-religious in a largely Christian society. It's negative attention that a person just doesn't need. Many consider it to be an atheist negatively pushing his views just for bringing it up.
I don't lie to them anymore because I'm not a child anymore, but there's no point in bringing it up. My relationship with my extended family is best leaving religion out of it. We have other things to deal with.
I don't think you realize the stigma of being vocally atheist/non-religious in a largely Christian society. It's negative attention that a person just doesn't need. Many consider it to be an atheist negatively pushing his views just for bringing it up.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:11 pm to Blastoise
quote:
smug or arrogant
Wasn't meant that way. I truly believe that and have seen it played out with people who were just as you described yourself.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:11 pm to Salmon
quote:Then just tell your daughter to mind her own business if she asks.
No one in either mine, or my wife's family knows our beliefs, or lack of belief concerning religion. We don't consider it anything that we need to announce or share with anyone, especially family.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:15 pm to Sir Drinksalot
quote:
You need to understand the Christian faith before you start answering questions on it.
Where did you get out of his post that he doesn't?
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:15 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
many people, including a shite ton of christians, viscerally hate atheists
...and queers, and Muslims, and Democrats...
JC's followers can be an intolerant bunch.
I was raised by atheists, and I had to keep that shite to myself for fear of being ostracized. They told me to go to church with my friends to see if i liked it, but it was very difficult for me. Sitting in the back of Northside Baptist hearing the call was uncomfortable.
My daughters all went to Church with their friends, and seem to have gotten lots from it, so i encourage them to go.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:16 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
I disagree with this. We don't evangelize our non-belief, but I see no reason to hide it either. We never "came out" as atheists to our families but we've never made any effort to hide it either. The only one that's ever asked me outright was my mother. She asked me if we were going to church on Easter one year and I said "No. We don't plan to". She said "Why not?" and I said "We don't go any other time, why would this Sunday be any different?" and she asked " Do you believe in God?" and I said "No". All she said was "Oh. I didn't know that".
That's really not too different from what I meant by saying to keep it private. Just that there isn't any point in my opinion to necessarily instigate that conversation with the extended family if you are not pressed to it. Except in certain contexts, religion is frequently an unwise subject to broach.
This post was edited on 12/29/14 at 2:17 pm
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:16 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
That is, they make an active effort to tell the child all the problems with religion and that smart people don't believe in it.
quote:
It will be because mom and dad told them so.
You're making a shite load of assumptions.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:16 pm to Blastoise
quote:
Saying things like "it's not too late" to someone who has probably looked into the subject as much or more than you is completely smug and arrogant.
I think it's only smug and arrogant if you are worried others might change and then have a different belief than you.
Otherwise "it's not too late" is a harmless lifeline, albeit I would admit it might be an annoying one.
Because to someone who believes, it's not too late. The only "too late" is once you've passed on.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:17 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I think where non-religious parents fall into trouble is when they approach raising their children with respect to religion the same way the religious do. That is, they make an active effort to tell the child all the problems with religion and that smart people don't believe in it. Regardless of the facts, people don't look at things objectively when raised to staunchly believe something. Even if there is no good objective reason to believe in God, that wont be the reason for their non-belief. It will be because mom and dad told them so.
fwiw, if i have kids i want them to go to church, attend christian services, etc. they can make their own choice in adult hood, but there is no reason to frick up their social life due to my choices. that's selfish
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:18 pm to Mung
It is strange that so many people, even those who are just loosely or culturally religious, view atheists as inherently immoral and untrustworthy.
It seems crazy to me that in 2014, virtually the only unelectable claim one can make in politics is that they don't believe in God.
It seems crazy to me that in 2014, virtually the only unelectable claim one can make in politics is that they don't believe in God.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:19 pm to Salmon
quote:
Momma and Daddy tell her that they do not believe in Jesus.
Are you committed to her believing or are you comfortable with her making her own decision?
If you are comfortable you can tell her what you believe and why, and allow the grandparents to do the same.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:20 pm to SlowFlowPro
again
I have no problem with my daughter going to church, camp, etc
and I would imagine all of this is easier as they get older
I was just wondering how other parents in similar situations handled it when they were younger, like 4-8 or so
just seems like it would be really confusing with them hearing different things from the major influences in their lives at that age
I have no problem with my daughter going to church, camp, etc
and I would imagine all of this is easier as they get older
I was just wondering how other parents in similar situations handled it when they were younger, like 4-8 or so
just seems like it would be really confusing with them hearing different things from the major influences in their lives at that age
This post was edited on 12/29/14 at 2:21 pm
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:20 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
fwiw, if i have kids i want them to go to church, attend christian services, etc. they can make their own choice in adult hood, but there is no reason to frick up their social life due to my choices. that's selfish
I'll gladly take my kids to church if they want to go, especially considering that I attend church with my family occasionally even though I don't believe.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:21 pm to Peazey
I'm sort of in the same situation.
I'm going to send my kids to catholic schools, just like my wife and myself went to.
we aren't religious, and if it was up to me, i wouldn't go to church for the rest of my life, but i think it would be better if i pretend to be catholic and teach my children that way of life while they are young, and when they get old enough to start asking questions, i'll try to lead them to make their own decisions.
I think they should first learn about the religion before deciding it's stupid, like i did.
We will go to church and be catholic. I'm not going to be crazy about it like my mom, and go to church on vacation, or miss a soccer tournament b/c we have to go to church, but we will make it a habit to go to church. When I feel my kids are old enough to make their own decisions, i'll stop going to church, again. And no, i do not think by pretending to be catholic for the next 15 years will make me "believe" again.
I think my parents know i'm not religious, but they don't know how unreligous i am. I don't want my mom worrying and "praying" constantly about my damned soul, so i pretty much keep my beliefs, or non beliefs, to myself.
I'm going to send my kids to catholic schools, just like my wife and myself went to.
we aren't religious, and if it was up to me, i wouldn't go to church for the rest of my life, but i think it would be better if i pretend to be catholic and teach my children that way of life while they are young, and when they get old enough to start asking questions, i'll try to lead them to make their own decisions.
I think they should first learn about the religion before deciding it's stupid, like i did.
We will go to church and be catholic. I'm not going to be crazy about it like my mom, and go to church on vacation, or miss a soccer tournament b/c we have to go to church, but we will make it a habit to go to church. When I feel my kids are old enough to make their own decisions, i'll stop going to church, again. And no, i do not think by pretending to be catholic for the next 15 years will make me "believe" again.
I think my parents know i'm not religious, but they don't know how unreligous i am. I don't want my mom worrying and "praying" constantly about my damned soul, so i pretty much keep my beliefs, or non beliefs, to myself.
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