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re: OT History Board - Spanish Conquistadors
Posted on 8/26/15 at 7:54 pm to Hiawatha
Posted on 8/26/15 at 7:54 pm to Hiawatha
quote:
If decimating an entire population with disease, destroying one of the most advanced civilizations in the world and forcibly trying to convert the survivors to Christianity makes someone a "bad dude," then sure. The story of the clash of civilizations and the reaction of the conquistadors and the Aztec to the encounter, is, however one of the more interesting topics in (relatively) recent history. The conquistadors' minds were blown, and the letters written by Cortes back home are pretty incredible to read.
I'm probably spelling it wrong, but it's worth looking up the "requiremento".
Essentially, some guys got off the boat, read a order to "bow down" to the Pope in Spanish, and those who didn't couldn't be enslaved.
The encomienda system (being given a group of people and the right to extract tribute from them) was pretty damn terrible.
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Posted on 8/26/15 at 8:07 pm to mauser
The Spaniards were horrified, no doubt, just as the Aztecs would have been had they washed ashore in Spain. The Spaniards were also in awe of Tenochtitlan--both in terms of population and how advanced it was. To suggest that the actual conquest happened because of the supposed horror is, however, absurd. The Spaniards were greedy and wanted to impose Christianity. They were no different than other Europeans that have shaped the world in that regard, but to suggest that they were guided by some abstract morality is silly.
Posted on 8/26/15 at 8:10 pm to Hiawatha
quote:
They were no different than other Europeans that have shaped the world in that regard
You think the northern Europeans who settled in the New World are no different from the Spaniards in this area? Are you serious?
Posted on 8/26/15 at 8:34 pm to Lou Pai
quote:
You think the northern Europeans who settled in the New World are no different from the Spaniards in this area? Are you serious
Almost all of the tribes that inhabited north America disappeared from the face of the earth. The so called white Europeans weren't any better than the Spanish
Posted on 8/26/15 at 8:43 pm to Lou Pai
I actually said nothing about "settlers." I'm speaking purely of the conquistadors. Conquests tend to be motivated by money and religion. Were the Spaniards more brutal than others?--probably. Were their motives any different than the French in Africa or the British in India?--no. The notion that they trekked across an ocean, showed up in the "New World," then decimated a civilization because they were morally outraged over human sacrifices that most scholars believe were exaggerated (4 inches of dried blood, really?) is ridiculous.
Posted on 8/26/15 at 8:48 pm to bencoleman
quote:
Almost all of the tribes that inhabited north America disappeared from the face of the earth. The so called white Europeans weren't any better than the Spanish
It's a widely accepted belief among historians and geneticists that, after Columbus, at least 50% of natives died from disease before even coming into direct contact with white people. Some speculate that it could even be closer to 90%, but we will likely never know. A comparatively minuscule amount died at the hands of whites in combat. Are you suggesting that the Pilgrims strategically detonated a germbomb in what is present-day St. Louis?
Anyway, my main point was that the motives, ideals, and consequences of the British, German, and French settlers couldn't have been any more different than those of the Spanish and Portuguese.
This post was edited on 8/26/15 at 8:51 pm
Posted on 8/26/15 at 8:49 pm to Hiawatha
Aztecs are overrated.
Posted on 8/26/15 at 8:59 pm to Lou Pai
Let there have been a civilization in the north similar to the aztecs and the incas and and you'd be singing a different tune.
Posted on 8/26/15 at 9:03 pm to 911Moto
quote:
And they just raped that region of its gold, melting down what would now be priceless artifacts
they sound like the ISIS of their time
Posted on 8/26/15 at 9:05 pm to bencoleman
Really? How many South Americans natives do you think died as a result of violence as opposed to disease?
It's a tragic moment in history, and the European settlers in the New World have a human rights record that is far from spotless, but it's intellectually dishonest to blame Europeans for natives being wiped out.
It's a tragic moment in history, and the European settlers in the New World have a human rights record that is far from spotless, but it's intellectually dishonest to blame Europeans for natives being wiped out.
Posted on 8/26/15 at 9:28 pm to Lou Pai
quote:
but it's intellectually dishonest to blame Europeans for natives being wiped
Wait what? The Europeans are directly responsible for the demise of the American Indian.
Posted on 8/26/15 at 9:33 pm to Lou Pai
The Northern Europeans could be just as brutal. But Northern Europe was not nearly as strong militarily or as experienced at conquest as the Spanish. The Spanish in the 1500s was one of the most powerful countries ever.
Posted on 8/27/15 at 5:17 am to Hiawatha
quote:I didn't intend to imply that the conquest happened just because of the horror, but the savagery and horror certainly played a large part in the justification for the conquest and conversion.
To suggest that the actual conquest happened because of the supposed horror is, however, absurd. The Spaniards were greedy and wanted to impose Christianity.
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