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Started By
Message
re: One of Greatest Speeches Ever, July 5th 1853
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:07 am to fouldeliverer
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:07 am to fouldeliverer
Where's the pretty speech about the mistreatment of the Irish or Native Americans?
1
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:10 am to tigerinthebueche
Yes, many. I encounter this statement time and again, what is your point? What does African complicity matter? Does it make New World slavery any less evil?
To be clear at that point there wasn't a pan-African or "black" identity. There were a multitude of conflicting tribal and ethnic groups. Slavery in Africa was also much different than New World slavery, and many merchants were at first unaware of the exploitive and dehumanizing form New World slavery had taken. Some historians have argued, once aware of this many stopped participating in the trade which is one reason there is a shift southward of major embarkation points over time. It also must be said we must be careful when we attempt to measure one form of slavery against another. With that said there is a difference between a society with slaves and a Slave Society. Slavery in Africa was mainly limited to those captured in battles, political enemies and debt bondage. Read Inhuman Bondage by David Brion Davis for more information about the rise and fall of New World slavery.
To be clear at that point there wasn't a pan-African or "black" identity. There were a multitude of conflicting tribal and ethnic groups. Slavery in Africa was also much different than New World slavery, and many merchants were at first unaware of the exploitive and dehumanizing form New World slavery had taken. Some historians have argued, once aware of this many stopped participating in the trade which is one reason there is a shift southward of major embarkation points over time. It also must be said we must be careful when we attempt to measure one form of slavery against another. With that said there is a difference between a society with slaves and a Slave Society. Slavery in Africa was mainly limited to those captured in battles, political enemies and debt bondage. Read Inhuman Bondage by David Brion Davis for more information about the rise and fall of New World slavery.
This post was edited on 7/4/14 at 9:15 am
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:13 am to bayoubengals88
You realize the US was able to quickly become such an economic powerhouse because of slavery?
USMC- Yes there are, but that's outside the scope of this thread. Wouldn't you agree?
USMC- Yes there are, but that's outside the scope of this thread. Wouldn't you agree?
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:15 am to fouldeliverer
quote:
USMC- Yes there are, but that's outside the scope of this thread. Wouldn't you agree?
No, seems the scope of the thread, your thread, is piss on America, is it not? Anyway, much better shite to do today than this.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:16 am to fouldeliverer
quote:
The legacy of slavery did not end with emancipation, it continued with Jim Crow, it did not end with the Civil Rights Act of 1865. You need not feel guilt but you should feel sorrow, sorrow the horrific instruction of slavery existed in our "Empire of Liberty", sorrow it cost 600,000 men's lives before it ended, sorrow that slavery was existing by another name after Reconstruction and sorrow that we still struggle with racial bigotry today. Guilt is not needed but appropriate historical memory is.
OK, I felt some sorrow for it, as I have done many times over the course of my life.
Now, can we get past it? Something tells me some people won't let that happen, because there's no advantage to letting it go.
ETA: I am so fricking sick of the hate America crowd which the OP signifies.
LC
This post was edited on 7/4/14 at 9:20 am
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:16 am to USMCTiger03
quote:
Where's the pretty speech about the mistreatment of the Irish or Native Americans?
That's what happens when you don't have better PR.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:23 am to fouldeliverer
Phuck him. If it's so bad here he shouldn't have returned from Britain when he left.
Indians are the ones who've had the worst story. People who came here slaughtered them and took their land yet you don't hear them belly-aching.
Indians are the ones who've had the worst story. People who came here slaughtered them and took their land yet you don't hear them belly-aching.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:28 am to fouldeliverer
quote:You realize NONE of us owned slaves?
fouldeliverer
You realize the US was able to quickly become such an economic powerhouse because of slavery?
The only thing about slaves that has meaning to me is that the descendants of slaves are a huge economic burden on our Country. They get everything for free now- from phones to food to excuse me if I don't feel the love.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:30 am to Geauxtiga
quote:
You realize NONE of us owned slaves?
and nobody has been a slave either
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:31 am to Geauxtiga
Personally I'm much more concerned with the soldiers in harms way today than slavery that occured over a century before my birth. I've always treated people with the respect they deserve and I feel that's my job. Not to rehash and punish myself for something that
1-I had nothing to do with &
2-will never happen again in America.
I don't understand the compulsion of people on a day meant to be one of thankfulness and celebration to bring up things that are ugly and awful. Who wants to bring up awful things on a celebration day? It'd be like playing a video at someone's wedding of the time the bride was a drunk whore in her early 20's. Whats the need?
1-I had nothing to do with &
2-will never happen again in America.
I don't understand the compulsion of people on a day meant to be one of thankfulness and celebration to bring up things that are ugly and awful. Who wants to bring up awful things on a celebration day? It'd be like playing a video at someone's wedding of the time the bride was a drunk whore in her early 20's. Whats the need?
This post was edited on 7/4/14 at 9:35 am
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:36 am to jbgleason
quote:yes...now you're getting it. Just feel bad. Feel turrible.
Damn, I guess I am just not allowed to feel good ever. Definitely White Guilt setting in.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:39 am to Mattwells90
quote:
It'd be like playing a video at someone's wedding of the time the bride was a drunk whore in her early 20's.
LINK to said video please?
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:40 am to Mattwells90
quote:True and I sure didn't hear that shite on Cinquo de Mayo.
I don't understand the compulsion of people on a day meant to be one of thankfulness and celebration to bring up things that are ugly and awful. Who wants to bring up awful things on a celebration day?
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:40 am to jbgleason
It's a metaphor brother.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:42 am to DonChowder
Since this thread went there maybe we ought to go to every indian reservation and and tell them how sorry we are that we screwed them over as well. Slavery is one thing, stealing of land, murder, and throwing small pox covered blankets on children is so that we can celebrate this holiday is another.
This post was edited on 7/4/14 at 9:43 am
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:44 am to beebefootballfan
Personally I don't like the "sins of the father" argument. I don't see why I'm responsible for something relatives of mine did as I don't even know their names.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:45 am to IgotKINGfisherSpeed
quote:
U are a true American.
I wouldn't be the man I am today without the help of the good ol white man.
I assume you're being sarcastic, and I wish it was done in a totally different manner, but you are absolutely lucky your ancestors were brought here. There has to be a small part of all AAs that feel lucky to have not been born into a tribe in Africa.
Again, I wish it wasn't done via slavery.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:49 am to GRTiger
quote:
There has to be a small part of all AAs that feel lucky to have not been born into a tribe in Africa.
Again, I wish it wasn't done via slavery.
what many blacks fail to see is the slaves brought to the western hemisphere were slaves in africa first. if anybody should be blamed it isthe original sellers.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 9:53 am to Mattwells90
quote:
It's a metaphor brother.
I know. I am just tucking sick of all the Pity Party / White Guilt threads and wanted to throw something OT like in the thread. As the Board is melancholy/angry today. I am signing off to go find someplace with a Brunch and a Bloody Mary Bar. To celebrate the birth of our great nation like a True American.
Getting drunk. Saying inappropriate things to passing women. Buying meat to grill over an open flame this evening.
Posted on 7/4/14 at 10:00 am to ksayetiger
Their American "owners" should absolutely be put to the fire for the way they treated then. They should be honored by their descendents through success. And many of them are.
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