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Message

re: Louisiana Coastal Erosion.

Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:52 am to
Posted by tigerbait703
Chackbay, La
Member since Sep 2007
655 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:52 am to
Diversions may help with the stagnant waters but doesn't have enough sediment flow to really start rebuilding. The only place I know of that land is constantly building is the Wax Lake Delta. Its big enough through Calumet to actually have a constant flow of water.
Posted by BottomlandBrew
Member since Aug 2010
27072 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:53 am to
quote:

Take out the levees. The River will repair the damage itself.


That is just one issue out of many. Sea level rise, industry channeling, and upstreams dams make this a problem that is not easy to fix. I'd love to be optimistic about it, but I'm not.
Posted by Bassmaster
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
149 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 10:02 am to
quote:

Diversions may help with the stagnant waters but doesn't have enough sediment flow to really start rebuilding. The only place I know of that land is constantly building is the Wax Lake Delta. Its big enough through Calumet to actually have a constant flow of water.


The diversions being planned are designed to capture sediment. Davis Pond and Caernarvon weren't designed for that, yet there is still some sediment deposition in the outfall.
Posted by Sao
East Texas Piney Woods
Member since Jun 2009
65697 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 10:02 am to

Hippie Tree Hugging Lib issue.

You a Lib? Amirite?
Posted by man in the stadium
Member since Aug 2006
1399 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 10:10 am to
A) I think hydrocarbon extraction and canal excavation is a contributing factor, but it's not the main factor in land loss, faulting and deep subsidence is.

B) the state is designing large scale diversions to mimick wax lake's flow and magnitude. It can be done, but the fishing industry will tie it up in court for decades until they are paid off or exhausted of legal avenues. By that time, our problems will have compounded.

C) the fishing industry, between legacy lawsuits, oil and gas activity settlements, natural disasters, oyster ground subleasing for 1000% markups, and oil spill have become so accustomed to receiving 'supplemental income' that sometimes I wonder if the actual harvest is profitable anymore.

D) there is no going back to a 1900s coastline. We must reengineer it to actually build land or maintain what we have. This means calculated retreat and relocation of humans, their assets, and the places they are accustomed to harvesting resources. Louisiana's coastline has fluctuated for tens of thousands of years and the public perceives that it should be a static entity. Humans have lived along this coastline since before the pyramids were built and have constantly shifted and adapted.
Posted by The Last Coco
On the water
Member since Mar 2009
6840 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 10:27 am to
quote:

there is no going back to a 1900s coastline.

True. And why would we want to? The coastline of LA is and always has been a moving target. To arbitrarily decide to return it to something it was 115 years ago is stupid. There is no base-line for this.
Posted by JohnZeroQ
Pelicans of Lafourche
Member since Jan 2012
8513 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 10:28 am to
quote:

there is no going back to a 1900s coastline. We must reengineer it to actually build land or maintain what we have. This means calculated retreat and relocation of humans, their assets, and the places they are accustomed to harvesting resources. Louisiana's coastline has fluctuated for tens of thousands of years and the public perceives that it should be a static entity. Humans have lived along this coastline since before the pyramids were built and have constantly shifted and adapted.

This
Posted by Redbone
my castle
Member since Sep 2012
18833 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 12:45 pm to
quote:


Like global warming, I wonder how much is man made and how much is normal nature progression. Thoughts?


I knew man made global warming bullshite would be in here. Even if there is any global warming the level rise hasn't been enough to have ANY effect on the coast including the barrier islands.
Just remove the levee from New Roads to N.O on the west side. Problem solved.
Posted by JohnZeroQ
Pelicans of Lafourche
Member since Jan 2012
8513 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 12:58 pm to
quote:

Just remove the levee from New Roads to N.O on the west side. Problem solved
What problem will that solve?

That seems like it will create more problems... like me and thousands of others having to move.
Posted by BottomlandBrew
Member since Aug 2010
27072 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 1:05 pm to
quote:

We must reengineer it to actually build land or maintain what we have. This means calculated retreat and relocation of humans, their assets, and the places they are accustomed to harvesting resources


The problem is that no politician can get re-elected on that. I agree with you 100%, but the politics of it all are what will be the deal breaker.
Posted by gaetti15
AK
Member since Apr 2013
13361 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 1:14 pm to
one day the levees will fail and the whole shape of the delta will become vastly different than it is now, with more of a westerly shift toward Morgan City and the Atchafalaya River

it really really really wants to go straight

This post was edited on 5/28/14 at 1:15 pm
Posted by runningTiger
Member since Apr 2014
3029 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 1:14 pm to
models are always changing.
don't trust one or two studies.
one missing variable or one miscalculation cna throw it all off.
5 years ago most thought the river didn't carry enough sediment to rebuild wetlands.

now, this study mentioned by times p LINK says it carries enough to rebuild for next 600 years if the sediment gets to the other side of the levees

hate when people make sweeping, not up to date statements
Posted by Asgard Device
The Daedalus
Member since Apr 2011
11562 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 2:43 pm to
Do away with the levee system.

Problem solved.
Posted by Fontainebleau Dr.
Mid-View New Orleans
Member since Dec 2012
2400 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 6:01 pm to
One thing I read a couple of years ago is that the parkinglotization if middle America has resulted in less sediment to flow down the Mississippi, and also the river's water flow to be much faster than in decades past. Don't know if it's true or not. But clearly it means shite that happens in states hundreds (and perhaps thousands) of miles from us, affects our geology and ecology in Louisiana.

I also believe that we've kidded ourselves about what our state actually looks like. In our minds' eyes, most of us think Louisiana looks like the Louisiana from the '30's.

I'm certainly no geologist, engineer, ecologist, or professional environmentalist...but I think about this shite all the time. I can't live anywhere else but down here (I tried, and it doesn't work). Yet I often wonder if Louisiana politicians, wealthy land-owners, and other powers that be in this state aren't purposefully allowing our state to sink into the sea for their own self-serving interests.

John Barry filed the law suit against the major oil companies to get the ball rolling on discussion about corporate environmental culpability and responsibility, and he was basically met with demands to drop the suit and calls for his immediate replacement by Jindal on down.
Posted by cave canem
pullarius dominus
Member since Oct 2012
12186 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 6:43 pm to
Just removing levees will not fix the problem. South LA was built as a series of deltas of the MS river. Look at a map of the river now and you will get the picture. The Corps of engeneers has diverted all the sediment from shallow marsh and river to very deep water. No need to dredge but no marsh building either. By the way every politician and business owner in LA was begging for this as a way to keep the Port of NO open at low river levels, so blaming the corps is not exactly honest to the problem.To reverse the land losses the river must change courses and deposit it sediment in shallow water, not MS canyon. Trying to accomplish this with diversions or flood sediment by removeing levees is a pipe dream of the foolish.
Posted by jimbeam
University of LSU
Member since Oct 2011
75703 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 6:45 pm to
The amount of sediment coming down the river is half that of in the 1930s, heavily due to dams.

One thing for sure, is that no one knows exactly the right answer.
This post was edited on 5/28/14 at 6:48 pm
Posted by Fontainebleau Dr.
Mid-View New Orleans
Member since Dec 2012
2400 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 6:57 pm to
Oh I understand that removing levees won't fix the problem. I'm not even calling for that. I think we all understand that the Port of New Orleans remaining intact is pretty high up on the totem pole. To quote from "Beautiful Crescent":

The Mississippi has run its present course since the sixteenth century. It was on the verge of jumping again when explorers appeared on the scene. If such a jump were to occur now below New Orleans, it would require a whole new system of navigation from the Gulf to the City. But if it were to occur above New Orleans, the result would be disastrous. [One of] the largest port[s] in the United States would no longer be situated on a river but a stagnant stream.

So this state is tasked with the challenge of controlling nature in perpetuity, it seems. I'm pretty sure that never ends well.
Posted by man in the stadium
Member since Aug 2006
1399 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 7:01 pm to
quote:

the Corps of engeneers has diverted all the sediment from shallow marsh and river to very deep water


this isnt exactly true. the river is actually going through aggredation in southwest pass up to about empire. this means most sediment is being dumped IN the river and only a very small percentage of it makes to to the gulf. the river is filling itself in because it has no slope and is hydraulically inefficient. it is why the corps has to dredge more and more out each year to maintain channel depth. read about the recent natural creation of mardi gras pass. the river is trying to find ways out further north.

quote:

The amount of sediment coming down the river is half that of in the 1930s, heavily due to dams.


true BUT its still measured in hundreds of millions of tons per year and will be at that level for several hundred more years. i once heard an analogy that is quite appropriate about the sediment load debate: "rejecting the sediment in the river because its less than previous centuries is like rejecting powerball winnings because somebody hit a bigger jackpot last year"
This post was edited on 5/28/14 at 7:04 pm
Posted by TH03
Mogadishu
Member since Dec 2008
171036 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 7:04 pm to
quote:

Oil companies are saying its the corps of engineers fault, not theirs. Yeah, right.



how exactly would it be the fault of the oil companies?
Posted by jimbeam
University of LSU
Member since Oct 2011
75703 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 7:05 pm to
You're right. I'm just saying.
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