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re: How were German armored divisions so much more elite than their US counterparts

Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:17 pm to
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64451 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:17 pm to
quote:

Wittman was a Tiger crewman, no?



Like Knispel he did not start on the Tiger. In fact I believe he actually started in a STUG which in the Wehrmacht was actually a tank destroyer and crewed by artillerymen and not considered part of the Panzer arm. but he did eventually command a Tiger. It was in a Tiger that he was killed in Normandy. but not before he pulled off one of the most amazing armored engagements in the history of armored warfare....

quote:

The following morning, the lead elements of the British 7th Armoured Division entered Villers-Bocage. They had been given the objective of exploiting the gap in the front line, seizing Villers-Bocage, and capturing the nearby ridge (Point 213) to attempt to force a German withdrawal.[18][19][20][21][22][23] The British arrival surprised Wittmann, as he had not expected them so soon.[24] He later stated:

I had no time to assemble my company; instead I had to act quickly, as I had to assume that the enemy had already spotted me and would destroy me where I stood. I set off with one tank and passed the order to the others not to retreat a single step but to hold their ground.[25]

At approximately 09:00[9] Wittmann's Tiger emerged from cover onto the main road, Route Nationale 175, and engaged the rearmost British tanks positioned on Point 213, destroying them.[26][27][28] Wittmann then moved towards Villers-Bocage[28] engaging several transport vehicles parked along the roadside, the carriers bursting into flames as their fuel tanks were ruptured by machine gun and high explosive fire.[28][29] Moving into the eastern end of the town he engaged a number of light tanks[28] followed by several medium tanks.[30] Alerted to Wittmann's actions, light tanks in the middle of the town quickly got off the road while medium tanks were brought forward.[8] Wittmann, meanwhile, had accounted for a further British tank,[31] two artillery observation post (OP) tanks[32] followed by a scout car and a half-track.[33] Accounts differ as to what happened next. Historians record that, following the destruction of the OP tanks, Wittmann briefly dueled without success against a Sherman Firefly before withdrawing.[34][35] The Tiger is then reported to have continued eastwards to the outskirts of the town before being disabled by an anti-tank gun.[36] Wittmann's own account, however, contradicts this; he states that his tank was disabled by an anti-tank gun in the town centre.[25] In less than 15 minutes, 13–14 tanks, two anti-tank guns and 13–15 transport vehicles had been destroyed by the Heavy SS-Panzer Battalion 101, the vast majority attributed to Wittmann.[Note 1][38] Wittmann would however play no further role in the Battle of Villers-Bocage.[39] For his actions during the battle, Wittmann was promoted to SS-Hauptsturmführer (captain) and awarded Swords to his Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross.[40]



The wreckage of the British transport column, and an anti-tank gun, that Wittmann engaged.

This post was edited on 10/29/14 at 2:18 pm
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89496 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:17 pm to
quote:

But y'all are correct. I only mentioned it because the burden born by the Commies in defeating the socialists is often overlooked. They spilled the majority of the blood and are still so haunted by it that it directly influences their relations with the world today.


The peoples themselves have a complicated, disprespectful history - we all know what Hitler and many Germans thought of Russians and Slavs, generally - "subhuman" - however, the reverse perspective is interesting and telling as well.

Most Russian words for foreign languages are some variation on the country of origin - just as we have pairs in English: France/French, Italian/Italian, Spain/Spanish, England/English.

The Russian word for the country of Germany is a recognizable cognate. However, the word for the German language is related to the word describing a person who is mute or cannot speak. It is similar to the Byelorussian surname of Mr. Spock - Nimoy, which also loosely translates as "Mute" or "Nonspeaker".

Germans and Russians don't like each other like they're from the old neighborhood.
Posted by HarryBalzack
Member since Oct 2012
15225 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:17 pm to
Yeah, once they lost Bulgaria, North Africa, and the Ukraine, they were fricked for fuel.
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
17468 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:19 pm to
OT...

Anyone in the Army or have connections that can look up histories? Does anyone know of a source of archival unit histories or after action reports from that timeframe?
Posted by HarryBalzack
Member since Oct 2012
15225 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:23 pm to
They have a whole unit in Carlisle, PN that does nothing but.
Posted by HarryBalzack
Member since Oct 2012
15225 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:24 pm to
You know, Nippon, the Japanese name for themselves, is derived from a Chinese word that means "short, slave-like people."
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
17468 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:33 pm to
quote:

They have a whole unit in Carlisle, PN that does nothing but.


Thanks! Do you have any contact info?
Posted by ScottFowler
NE Ohio
Member since Sep 2012
4132 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:37 pm to
The hate between the germans and Russians/polish goes back to the old Teutonic Order (1200-1400). Hilter believed the Third Reich was the Teutonic Order's direct descendant.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89496 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:39 pm to
quote:

Thanks! Do you have any contact info?


Here's a link to AHEC.

USAHEC
Posted by HarryBalzack
Member since Oct 2012
15225 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:40 pm to
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
17468 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:40 pm to
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89496 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:40 pm to
quote:

The hate between the germans and Russians/polish goes back to the old Teutonic Order (1200-1400). Hilter believed the Third Reich was the Teutonic Order's direct descendant.


The Poles have been historically pretty screwed - caught between Germany and Russia - dominated alternatively by the Prussians and Russians over the years. They're Catholic, using the Latin alphabet, but they're Slavs. Along with the Croats - they're truly caught between East and West, culturally.
Posted by HarryBalzack
Member since Oct 2012
15225 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 2:45 pm to
Slavs in that whole part of Europe have gotten screwed.
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
17468 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 6:21 pm to
Awesome write-up and thanks for sharing! Whitman was a master, that's for sure. I do like the Tiger, though. Had there been sufficient numbers and fuel...
Posted by elprez00
Hammond, LA
Member since Sep 2011
29375 posts
Posted on 10/29/14 at 6:42 pm to
Darth. Great post
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