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re: How solar power could slay the fossil fuel empire by 2030
Posted on 6/18/15 at 2:56 pm to RealityTiger
Posted on 6/18/15 at 2:56 pm to RealityTiger
How awesome it would be if solar gets down to 5 cents a kWh, making plastic from biomass becomes cheap, and our rubber and shingles get cheaper due to oil getting down to $30/barrel?
1
Posted on 6/18/15 at 2:59 pm to JudgeHolden
In order to get to the light hydrocarbons to produce the 25% plastic, you have to do something with the bottoms product. Which is where fuel and all other things are produced. Distillation, my friend.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 3:16 pm to RealityTiger
quote:
In order to get to the light hydrocarbons to produce the 25% plastic, you have to do something with the bottoms product. Which is where fuel and all other things are produced. Distillation, my friend.
In other words, you are saying that you must use the whole barrel to make the plastic. So even if you had no use at all for gasoline or diesel, you would still produce it as a byproduct to make plastic, and you would still have to use the same amount of oil. Right?
Posted on 6/18/15 at 3:26 pm to JudgeHolden
You don't just extract ethylene from crude oil in one process. There are a bunch of steps in between, which is where everything in between ethylene and crude comes from. Where do you suggest that is stored? Do we make a giant tank farm somewhere, the size of a small state, practically?
Posted on 6/18/15 at 3:28 pm to Asgard Device
quote:
Solar also allows you to spread the sources out more and to have very localized energy farms, mitigating large outages.
I have no doubt that we will have various forms of distributed generation. It has it's potential benefits - like you describe. And solar may even get cheap enough to justify at the consumer level some day.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 3:36 pm to RealityTiger
quote:
RealityTiger
Slow down, Kimosabe. I'm just trying to understand your point.
I started with saying the 75 percent of crude becomes fuel. I thought you were saying that to make plastic, you had to use the same amount of crude whether you were making fuel or not. If I misunderstood you, please clarify.
I don't know ethylene from who-the-hell-knows-ene. Never got past inorganic chemistry. I'd be glad for your expertise. I'm just trying to understand one simple point: If you kept using plastic but stopped using gasoline/diesel, would you use less crude oil?
Posted on 6/18/15 at 3:38 pm to Aux Arc
quote:
And solar may even get cheap enough to justify at the consumer level some day.
If private industry takes control and the gov takes thier hands out of it, I have no doubt that solar has huge potential for our country. It will just take longer than 15, or even 30 for that matter, years for solar to "slay" fossil fuels.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 3:39 pm to Asgard Device
quote:
due to oil getting down to $30/barrel?
And Russia and Iran go bankrupt?
Nice.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 3:42 pm to Placebeaux
OK, I just went back and read the article. This guy is really full of shite. He is asserting that solar is already almost as cheap as coal. It ain't even close. 
Posted on 6/18/15 at 4:07 pm to Aux Arc
quote:
OK, I just went back and read the article. This guy is really full of shite. He is asserting that solar is already almost as cheap as coal. It ain't even close.
The newest solar plant in California is supposedly 10 cents per kWh. With solar it varies depending how far out you spread those upfront costs.
The idea is that solar is advancing more rapidly than other energy techs in terms of efficiency and a lot can happen in the next 15-20 years. Tech today will be Windows Me old by then.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 6:56 pm to Asgard Device
quote:
OK, I just went back and read the article. This guy is really full of shite. He is asserting that solar is already almost as cheap as coal. It ain't even close.
quote:
The newest solar plant in California is supposedly 10 cents per kWh.
Solar in West Texas is going for less than 5¢/kWh and wind is even cheaper. New construction of coal plants is clearly non-competitive because zero coal plants were built in the US in 2014.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 7:28 pm to Placebeaux
quote:
Essentially, I’m telling them you’re out of business in less than 15 years,” Seba said.
Shot his credibility right there.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 7:54 pm to Clames
One thing that seems to escape the understanding of those that pimp solar power as some sort of panacea to our energy needs is that even if a solar cell was 100% efficient, the area required to meet current energy needs in the US would be huge. A solar grid larger than NYC and receiving direct sunlight no less than 355 days a year. Solar will always be a power source that relies on a more reliable and energy-dense method. Nuclear power, at some point, will have to become that source.[/quote]
They will have solar farms on the moon at some point in this century which solves the problems of room and sunlight.
They will have solar farms on the moon at some point in this century which solves the problems of room and sunlight.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 8:21 pm to Shamalamadingdong
quote:Or more likely solar sails that transit energy to earth based batteries.
They will have solar farms on the moon at some point in this century which solves the problems of room and sunlight.
The solar energy falling on a square yard is not enough to power the energy required to run our society.
ETA assuming those square yards cover most of the globe.
This post was edited on 6/18/15 at 8:37 pm
Posted on 6/18/15 at 8:57 pm to Placebeaux
Wind energy is much more effective
Posted on 6/18/15 at 9:31 pm to AUCE05
quote:
Those reactors will be active for 100,000+ thousand years.
100 million years? Damn.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 9:39 pm to Bullfrog
Solar Panels on the moon
Space in general, the moon specifically are being researched very hard and I believe it is a source the world will begin to use within the next couple of decades.
Space in general, the moon specifically are being researched very hard and I believe it is a source the world will begin to use within the next couple of decades.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 10:46 pm to Placebeaux
I priced solar for my house. they wanted $85,000 to put it on and maintain it for 20 years. You can buy your own parts and do it for under $40,000.
Those prices are prohibitive for most people.
I think that if the USA put solar on every home, it would save so much money and create so many jobs, that it would pay for itself, net.
The Euro's are on it because they don't have oil. They will be the leaders in the technology. We will be buying German patent technology.
I did notice a year or two ago that the US Navy has a working prototype that will produce energy from sea water. That will get them out of diesel one of these days. They are taking the H from the H20.
Those prices are prohibitive for most people.
I think that if the USA put solar on every home, it would save so much money and create so many jobs, that it would pay for itself, net.
The Euro's are on it because they don't have oil. They will be the leaders in the technology. We will be buying German patent technology.
I did notice a year or two ago that the US Navy has a working prototype that will produce energy from sea water. That will get them out of diesel one of these days. They are taking the H from the H20.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:04 pm to JudgeHolden
quote:
About 75% of crude is for used for fuel.
oil is only used in Hawaii for energy, comprising <1% of our energy use.
there will always be a need for gas/diesel for heavy equipment/transportation. Maybe not always, but it ain't changing any time soon.
Posted on 6/18/15 at 11:06 pm to Placebeaux
tar and plastics
that is all
that is all
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