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Started By
Message
re: FBI releases video of chase, shooting that killed Oregon refugee occupier
Posted on 1/29/16 at 8:19 am to StrongBackWeakMind
Posted on 1/29/16 at 8:19 am to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
When you flee from the cops, crash your truck trying to avoid a road block, are surrounded by cops with their weapons drawn and pointed at you after you exit the vehicle, it seems like a terrible idea to attempt to pull something out of your pocket.
I agree with this statement.
1
Posted on 1/29/16 at 8:25 am to lsuhunt555
I enjoyed that video as much as the idiot trying to break into his apartment. The world is better without these two guys.
Posted on 1/29/16 at 8:50 am to SouthTiger504
quote:
If you were a cop would you risk getting shot and possibly never seeing your family again?
I can think of many terrible illegal situations where this statement would justify a bad shoot.
If that were true why not just shoot him on sight? I mean dead people can't shoot back.
With that said all I will say is that reaching into a jacket with many guns aimed at you is a bad idea, and probably won't end well.
However the FBI has to be aware of the martyrdom effect here, and that the deaths of any of these guys just plays into their hands. If he's still alive its much easier to control the narrative and end this thing peacefully.
Now, these guys have a rallying cause and the authorities have less control of the message. My real beef here is that some of these militia guys will watch this video and see a martyr. Making a bigger effort to keep him alive would have blunted that.
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:18 am to mikelbr
quote:
I enjoyed that video as much as the idiot trying to break into his apartment. The world is better without these two guys.
The San Bernandino terrorists had fewer cops after them then this guy. It's fricked up. There's not a rush in this situation. He didn't kidnap someone or hold someone hostage. Our government is a bitch.
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:20 am to Rhino5
quote:
The San Bernandino terrorists had fewer cops after them then this guy. It's fricked up. There's not a rush in this situation. He didn't kidnap someone or hold someone hostage. Our government is a bitch.
Good god your shtick is old.
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:23 am to Slinky
At the point you've crashed your car and are surrounded by cops who have their weapons already pointed right at you, what makes you think reaching in your jacket is the right move? It looks like the guy came out of the vehicle ready to surrender. He puts his hands up at least for a second or two. That says he wants to live. But then he goes reaching inside his jacket. I don't get that. What did he think the cops would do? Why make that move?
ETA: And just so there's no confusion on where I stand. Once he reached inside his jacket, the cops really had no other choice than to put him down. Had he just kept his hands up, he'd be alive today.
ETA: And just so there's no confusion on where I stand. Once he reached inside his jacket, the cops really had no other choice than to put him down. Had he just kept his hands up, he'd be alive today.
This post was edited on 1/29/16 at 9:25 am
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:24 am to JBeam
lol you don't have a clue.
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:25 am to Darth_Vader
Also, keep in mind that they almost ran over a federal agent while trying to drive through the snowbank.
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:35 am to JBeam
quote:
Also, keep in mind that they almost ran over a federal agent while trying to drive through the snowbank.
Good point. I still don't get his actions though. Why try to surrender by putting your hands up and then a couple seconds later go digging in your jacket when you've already got multiple firearms leveled right at you from multiple directions? Did he really think he could get his weapon out and shoot them before they could shoot him?
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:40 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
However the FBI has to be aware of the martyrdom effect here, and that the deaths of any of these guys just plays into their hands. If he's still alive its much easier to control the narrative and end this thing peacefully.
Now, these guys have a rallying cause and the authorities have less control of the message. My real beef here is that some of these militia guys will watch this video and see a martyr. Making a bigger effort to keep him alive would have blunted that.
Orrrrr they could just not try to appeal to crazy people's thoughts and protect themselves.
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:41 am to Rhino5
quote:
The San Bernandino terrorists had fewer cops after them then this guy. It's fricked up. There's not a rush in this situation. He didn't kidnap someone or hold someone hostage. Our government is a bitch.
Let me ask you something. Have you ever been the bad guy in a high speed chase? I have. 19 yr old idiot running from the cops.
You know what I did when the cops blocked my car on Highland road at Woodstone? I put my hands out the car and submitted like little bitch b/c I was terrified of all the guns pointed at me.
I'm here today b/c I didn't do like this dumb frick.
This post was edited on 1/29/16 at 9:42 am
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:44 am to JBeam
He wasn't trying to drive through it. He was trying to avoid crashing into the cars blocking the road. It was set up in a terrible spot. In a curve with high snow banks. He was speeding and didn't see them in time. If you watch, you see the FBI agent is thinking the same thing. So he's running away from the cars. He wasn't attempting to run anyone over.
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:45 am to StrongBackWeakMind
quote:
Suicide by cop?
That's the only thing I can think this could be. But if that's the case, why try to surrender only seconds before that?
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:46 am to ell_13
Regardless of his intentions, he almost ran over a law enforcement officer while fleeing.
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:47 am to Darth_Vader
quote:Idk. Pretty confusing.
That's the only thing I can think this could be. But if that's the case, why try to surrender only seconds before that?
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:47 am to mikelbr
I agree that once the hand reached in the coat he sealed his fate. I guess I am more baffled about the overall hasty energy and seriousness the government is putting into this situation with some redneck farmers in the middle of nowhere. Road blocks, heavy weapons. I realize the rednecks are armed but I am very surprised at how quickly the government is wanting to move on this, no hostages or critical building being taken over. That is all. Just my two cents. The guy was doing about 60 mph at the road block and reached in his coat, he's going to be shot.
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:47 am to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Now, these guys have a rallying cause and the authorities have less control of the message.
I understand your point here but I disagree with how this video will play out. The video clearly shows that the guy wasn't on his knees with his hands up and executed in cold blood as the "eyewitnesses" (according to those friendly to him) had described. The authorities have literally ALL of the control now as they can refute any claim by stating "here is where we pulled them over, here is where they instead decided to begin a dangerous high speed chase, and here is where the man that had already threatened to shoot any federal agents or cops that were in his way decided to reach into his jacket." Anyone with any sense has to realize that the federal agents and cops on the scene had every right to act in self-defense given the situation.
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:48 am to Darth_Vader
quote:I don't think he was trying to surrender. I think he was stretching out his arms to maintain his balance while he tried to run through the snow, but then saw an agent waiting for him at the treeline. That's when he decided to pull his gun and die.
That's the only thing I can think this could be. But if that's the case, why try to surrender only seconds before that?
When he got out, he moved straight away from the roadblock towards the trees. I think he was still trying to run.
Keep in mind that this guy said he would rather die than spend a day in prison, and that he would go down fighting. It's not at all surprising that he'd try to pull his gun, even if he knew it meant dying.
Posted on 1/29/16 at 9:49 am to Rhino5
quote:
The guy was doing about 60 mph at the road block and reached in his coat, he's going to be shot.
Right. He had his hands up and looked like it was going smoothly as can be expected. But all that rustling around he did near his waist was just begging to be killed. Had to be on purpose. Feel bad for the cop who shot him more than him.
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