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Message
re: Close up of an A-10 lighting up a couple of Hadjis
Posted on 5/21/16 at 8:20 pm to damnedoldtigah
Posted on 5/21/16 at 8:20 pm to damnedoldtigah
My cousin used to take me to the England bombing range to watch the A10 and Corsiars do their bombing runs back in the day.
This post was edited on 5/21/16 at 8:27 pm
0
Posted on 5/21/16 at 8:37 pm to Da Sheik
Can anyone link the video where taliban were killed while standing on top of a building?
Posted on 5/21/16 at 10:03 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
Thanks for defeating the vaunted Afghani Air Force, I guess?
We aren't fighting the Afghani's friend...
To your point though, I don't go play basketball in Harlem.
I would lose... and then probably lose my life... but that's besides the point. Why start something you clearly have no chance at winning? Best to sit the whole air force thing out for most countries.
Posted on 5/21/16 at 10:08 pm to ElderTiger
quote:
Per a good friend of mine who is a retired officer who flew A 10s in Desert Storm, there was talk of turning the A 10 fleet over to the Army for CAS
Not saying your friend is lying, but he was probably misinformed. There's no way this would happen. And if it did, it wouldn't go very well. The Army has no idea how to operate fixed wing aircraft.
Hell, they even frick up with the helos they have. When I was in Afghanistan the Army's helos were the largest drivers of civilian casualties because they don't consider themselves to be doing Close Air Support (CAS) but rather Close Combat Aviation (CCA). This meant they didn't play by the rules of engagement other platforms had to abide by, one of which was having to be controlled by a qualified JTAC. Instead they would simply talk to some grunt who would try to explain what was going on and the Apache crew would then engage what they thought was the enemy. Often it turned out to be the wrong crowd of people and be just civilians. Saw that a lot.
As to their knowledge of how to really employ airpower, let me offer this gem (also from my time over there). The RC-East Commander (Army 2-star who was also Commander of the 101st Division) told my boss (AF General) that he could fix his lack of CAS in RC-East if they AF would just give him 6 A-10s. My boss played along and asked how. The response was "well, A-10s fly unrefueled for about 4 hours...6 A-10s at 4 hours per sortie means I can have an A-10 airborne 24x7." My boss had to explain to him that "if you have 6 aircraft, likely only 3 of them are flyable in a given day and if the mission area is an hour away from where they are based a 4 hour sortie means they are overhead for 2 hours...so 6 aircraft would possibly give you 6 hours of CAS in a given day. Oh wait a minute, that's exactly what you're are getting from the A-10s at Bagram and the AF kicks in another 6 via F-15Es also at Bagram. So the AF is already given you 12 hours of coverage a day."
Last, I go back to the point that if the Army was that supportive of the AF keeping the A-10 they should give up some of their portion of the Defense budget for the AF to be able to afford doing so. Otherwise, the AF has to make the decision on whether it accepts risk in the ability to gain/maintain Air Superiority (its primary mission) or accepts risk in the ability to do CAS (a support mission).
Posted on 5/21/16 at 10:11 pm to Da Sheik
quote:
I saw an interview with a Taliban commander. He said the things we fear the most are the A10 and the AC130 gunship. Case closed
And if you would have interviewed the Japanese after WWII they would have told you they feared the B-29. Does that mean we should have kept them around and tried to fly them against the defenses in Vietnam?
You can't base tomorrow's force on the exploits of the past.
Posted on 5/21/16 at 10:12 pm to McVick
quote:
Sen. John McCain addressing Air Force Chief Welsh on the issue of retiring the A-10
McCain has an ax to grind because the A-10s are at Davis Monthan AFB in AZ and the F-35 isn't slated to be based there. He is grandstanding for votes.
Posted on 5/21/16 at 10:26 pm to 19
McCaskil?
Posted on 5/21/16 at 10:46 pm to Da Sheik
This is a great video to hear what an A-10 sounds like in a actual fight. You can hear the rounds tearing shite up on the ground and a few seconds later you hear that distinct BRRRRRRRRRRRRRROP!!!!!
BRRRRRROP!!!
Nsfw language
BRRRRRROP!!!
Nsfw language
Posted on 5/21/16 at 10:48 pm to FlyingTiger06
Exactly... Not that I'm super "in the know" but every time that an A-10 thread pops up, so many ignorant posters come out.
Posted on 5/22/16 at 1:33 am to FlyingTiger06
There absolutely was "talk" of turning the A-10 turn over back in about 1989. How serious was it, I'm not sure. Then the first gulf war came and the A-10 performed fantastic, and that was the end of that. And for the record, the Army operates hundreds of fixed-wing aircraft on a daily basis.
Posted on 5/22/16 at 2:44 am to OldHickory
Posted on 5/22/16 at 6:25 am to Da Sheik
RAT....A.....TAT......TAT....
Posted on 5/22/16 at 6:38 am to McVick
It's kinda incredible. What is the vested interest of the air force in getting rid of the platform?
Posted on 5/22/16 at 7:57 am to ssgrice
quote:
Helicopters which do OK, but cannot compare to the A-10.
Have your first downvote!
I've seen well positioned enemies disengage and flee at the sound of approaching helos. On one occasion, we were coordinating support from fast movers and found inbound CASEVAC more effective than the fixed wing assets!
I will take rotary wing CAS over fixed wing anytime, especially in an urban environment.
Posted on 5/22/16 at 8:03 am to cubsfan5150
quote:
It's true
No actually it isn't. The AF (my branch back in the day) Sr. Brass is full of shot about the other airframes being capable of picking up the hogs mission.
Those newer ac can cover that mission about like I can cover LF7 out of the flat. I can do it until it counts and then things would fall to shite.
Posted on 5/22/16 at 8:15 am to elprez00
quote:
What is the vested interest of the air force in getting rid of the platform?
Ever shrinking AF budget (sequestration), new aircraft ever increasing costs, personnel cost climbing...got to cut something.
Posted on 5/22/16 at 8:20 am to FlyingTiger06
quote:
Hell, they even frick up with the helos they have. When I was in Afghanistan the Army's helos were the largest drivers of civilian casualties because they don't consider themselves to be doing Close Air Support (CAS) but rather Close Combat Aviation (CCA). This meant they didn't play by the rules of engagement other platforms had to abide by, one of which was having to be controlled by a qualified JTAC. Instead they would simply talk to some grunt who would try to explain what was going on and the Apache crew would then engage what they thought was the enemy. Often it turned out to be the wrong crowd of people and be just civilians. Saw that a lot.
I've also shot a N Hellfire on an ANP compound killing about 15 "good Afghans" in Bati Kot after I received a 9 line from a very experienced OGA JTAC. shite happens and as a former 64pilot I'll take CCA all day because I am much more responsive to the GFC.
quote:
The RC-East Commander (Army 2-star who was also Commander of the 101st Division)
If you talking about McConville who himself is a 64pilot I'm sure you are misquoting him.
Posted on 5/22/16 at 8:41 am to fly2fish
quote:
the Army operates hundreds of fixed-wing aircraft on a daily basis
Not combat aviation. They operate C-130s and UAVs for reconnaissance. Huge difference.
Posted on 5/22/16 at 8:47 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
I'll take CCA all day because I am much more responsive to the GFC
More responsive, but still just as negligent. I gave just one example, there were many. One of my jobs over there was to track CIVCAS for COMISAF. CCA was the #1 cause of CIVCAS over there.
quote:
If you talking about McConville who himself is a 64pilot I'm sure you are misquoting him.
No, it was MG Campbell and I'm not misquoting him, I was sitting right next to my boss when he said it. In fact, I don't know how my boss (MG Lyon) didn't burst out laughing at him. I know I had to bite the inside of my cheeks not to.
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