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Started By
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re: Boeing, not Spirit, mis-installed piece that blew off Alaska MAX 9 jet, industry source sa
Posted on 1/24/24 at 10:51 pm to Miglez
Posted on 1/24/24 at 10:51 pm to Miglez
quote:I used to be "if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going". But it seems after the McDonnell Douglas merger Boeing has become MD not MD becoming Boeing.
Boeing is a disaster.
1
Posted on 1/24/24 at 10:53 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:I think it's gone fro being run by the engineers, to being run by MBAs. Death of any company trying to build things.
Boeing was once a great company committed to excellence
Posted on 1/25/24 at 5:22 am to NoBoDawg
quote:
Airbus has surpassed Boeing in the narrow body ( middle of the market) segment for sure. Wide body aircraft are a different story.
The 737 and 320 are basically the same airplane besides the 737 having a better wing. Both companies use mostly the same part suppliers. They are just assembly and sales companies.
I know it's popular to bag on Boeing right now and their company priorities are fricked up but that isn't unique among corporations today.
When things like a wheel falls off that has nothing to do with Boeing, they don't even make the wheels or the gear. That is the fault of the company flying the airplane because they are responsible for maintenance.
When an engine catches on fire that also has nothing to do with Boeing, they also don't make the engines and that would be again the fault of the 1 of 3 engine manufacturers and/or the company maintenance that flies the airplane.
Posted on 1/25/24 at 5:33 am to Scuttle But
The issues are tied to design, part manufacturers and sub contractors. Boeing is largely just the assembler of the aircraft who puts their name on the aggregation of sourced parts.
Posted on 1/25/24 at 5:35 am to weptiger
quote:
The issues are tied to design, part manufacturers and sub contractors. Boeing is largely just the assembler of the aircraft who puts their name on the aggregation of sourced parts.
1) Boeing designed the part
2) Boeing is responsible for choosing and getting its suppliers
3) In this particular case the part was assembled incorrectly by Boeing at a Boeing plant.
This post was edited on 1/25/24 at 5:37 am
Posted on 1/25/24 at 5:53 am to Miglez
Internet tough guy quote
United /// $300 /// 737-Max
Delta /// $306 /// A320
“Yea, I’ll give Boeing another go”
quote:Reality
Boeing is a disaster. If it ain't Airbus then I'm taking a bus
United /// $300 /// 737-Max
Delta /// $306 /// A320
“Yea, I’ll give Boeing another go”
Posted on 1/25/24 at 6:02 am to Scuttle But
quote:
1) Boeing designed the part
2) Boeing is responsible for choosing and getting its suppliers
3) In this particular case the part was assembled incorrectly by Boeing at a Boeing plant.
Understood, the point being made was that Boeing doesn’t “manufacture” the planes in the truest sense of the word. There was no intent to insinuate that Boeing has no responsibility for their product.
This post was edited on 1/25/24 at 6:03 am
Posted on 1/25/24 at 7:02 am to LSUGrrrl
quote:
A Boeing 757 jet full of passengers experienced a peculiar incident as its nose wheel detached and rolled away while awaiting takeoff clearance on the runway, with nearly 200 passengers on board. Delta Air Lines Flight 982 was on the verge of taking off from Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport in Atlanta last Saturday when, according to a preliminary report from the Federal Aviation Administration released on Monday, the wheel “came off and rolled down the hill.”
Here is a quote from a passenger on that flight:
Posted on 1/25/24 at 7:10 am to evil cockroach
Delta has unfortunately ordered the Max.
Posted on 1/25/24 at 7:26 am to broadhead
quote:
All those passengers are going to get paid.
I'd be happy with a ton of free flight credit.
Posted on 1/28/24 at 10:14 pm to dukesilver72
quote:quote:
Lots of armchair critics here have zero idea what they are talking about.
That’s good. Which one killed hundreds of people the past few years and have been a shitshow since?
I stand by my statement and you are one of the armchair critics that has zero idea what you are talking about.
There is a cardinal rule in civil aviation: do not leave the gate with a safety device not working. This is federal law, airline policy, and pilot union policy in most western nations.
The two pacific rim airlines that lost their 737's had multiple safety systems out of order and were written up by pilots repeatedly and there was direct causation to the accidents here.
This was completely unaccaptable. It would be like having a flat tire for days on your personal car, going out on the interstate and doing 70, then blaming the GPS for leading you into a pond. No, your tire was flat.
You. do. not. leave. the. gate. with. safety. systems. malfunctioning.
Cannot be simpler than that. And yet they did it over and over again.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:00 pm to Scuttle But
quote:
1) Boeing designed the part
Surprisingly that is not the case for Boeing anymore. The first issue they had with the MAX crashes was a software issue and they didn't write the software themselves, they outsourced it to and Indian company.
Look at the 787 most of the part were designed and built by foreign companies. The 787 is probably more a Japanese airplane than an American one.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 3:18 pm to nick__21
quote:That wasn't the root cause though. The root cause is Boeing rushed the production as an upgraded version of the 737 instead of developing a new aircraft. A new aircraft would have meant a 9-year FAA certification process, where the redesign meant a 3 to 5-year certification process. It was rushed so American Airlines wouldn't switch to the Airbus.
he first issue they had with the MAX crashes was a software issue and they didn't write the software themselves, they outsourced it to and Indian company.
The redesign had wider and heavier engines, which meant the fuselage would be longer and the wings would be wider. To stay in the "redesign" scope of FAA, they couldn't change the height of the aircraft, so the engines were mounted more forward on the wings. This necessitated the MCAS system that led to failures. Oh, and Boeing left the MCAS info out of the flight manual so the FAA wouldn't catch on to how different the aircraft was. If the FAA would have known, then there is a highly likely chance the aircraft would have had to go through the full FAA certification process. This was ALL on Boeing, not anyone else.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 5:10 pm to AFtigerFan
quote:
This necessitated the MCAS
Yes regulations made Boeing develop a system to make the 737 handle exactly the same as older models. Which is a dumb rule since other jets like A318-A321 and 757/767 all handle differently but they are the same type certificate anyway. They subcontracted that work out to an Indian IT company to develop the MCAS software. All facts.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 5:49 pm to nick__21
I’m not disputing that. I’m saying Boeing, in their effort to rush out an aircraft, hid the MCAS system from the flight manual in order to get their aircraft approved quicker. Engineers fought against that but weren’t listened to. So, when the MCAS took over the aircraft, the pilots had no idea what was happening or how to override it. Boeing caused those crashes due to negligence.
This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 6:57 pm
Posted on 2/13/24 at 4:10 pm to AFtigerFan
quote:
I’m not disputing that. I’m saying Boeing, in their effort to rush out an aircraft, hid the MCAS system from the flight manual in order to get their aircraft approved quicker. Engineers fought against that but weren’t listened to. So, when the MCAS took over the aircraft, the pilots had no idea what was happening or how to override it. Boeing caused those crashes due to negligence.
That's in hindsight. If it was properly developed, it should have been something that worked in the background that had no real effect on pilots. Some argue if these MAX crashes incidents happened in the USA, they actually wouldn't have happened because the pilots it happened to didn't follow their memory items like they should have and they wouldn't qualify to be pilots in the USA because they had something like 300 hours flying when you have to have 1200 in the USA just to get hired and start flying small jets.
Posted on 2/19/24 at 8:03 am to AFtigerFan
quote:
That wasn't the root cause though. The root cause is Boeing rushed the production as an upgraded version of the 737 instead of developing a new aircraft. A new aircraft would have meant a 9-year FAA certification process, where the redesign meant a 3 to 5-year certification process. It was rushed so American Airlines wouldn't switch to the Airbus.
The redesign had wider and heavier engines, which meant the fuselage would be longer and the wings would be wider. To stay in the "redesign" scope of FAA, they couldn't change the height of the aircraft, so the engines were mounted more forward on the wings. This necessitated the MCAS system that led to failures. Oh, and Boeing left the MCAS info out of the flight manual so the FAA wouldn't catch on to how different the aircraft was. If the FAA would have known, then there is a highly likely chance the aircraft would have had to go through the full FAA certification process. This was ALL on Boeing, not anyone else.
The MAX flies perfectly fine and is stable without MCAS. It is only outdated regulations that required it. Boeing's problem is they outsourced the solution, like they have outsourced everything the last 20 years.
Posted on 2/19/24 at 8:10 am to Scuttle But
quote:
Boeing is so fricked.
Boeing survived MCAS and that was a much worse outcome for the crews and passengers involved.
Posted on 2/19/24 at 9:12 am to LarryCLE
Posted on 2/19/24 at 9:45 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
But it seems after the McDonnell Douglas merger Boeing has become MD not MD becoming Boeing.
Didn’t MD execs take over during that merger?
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