- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: American Civil War Animated Maps
Posted on 9/22/15 at 5:55 pm to Jimbeaux
Posted on 9/22/15 at 5:55 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
I'm still pissed at those Gawd Damn Visgoths! frick those murderous cowardly Huns who accepted Roman citizenship and then turned around like traitors and burned the city to the ground, ending the Glory that was the Roman Empire!
What does any of that have to do with slavery in the US? There is no absolution or justification for what happened to blacks in this country during our nation's dark period of slavery.
This post was edited on 9/22/15 at 6:36 pm
1
Posted on 9/22/15 at 6:15 pm to Maverick01
No absolution, he says!
Let's start with these points:
- slavery has been a part of the human experience from before recorded history
- the U.S. did not invent slavery
- African slaves were first enslaved by other Africans
- there were more than just a few Black slave owners in the South
- other nations had black slaves
- the U.S. had a surprising number of Irish slaves, yes slaves, as well as indentured servants
- although the abolitionist movement was strongest in the north, many Union states had slavery. Politically, the North did not go to war to end slavery (as an immediate goal)
- many in the south opposed slavery as well, even though it was a political part of the establishment of the Confederacy
- Slavery is a terrible institution, and needed to be abolished. The Civil War accomplished that probably at least 40-50 years before it would have ended in some other way
- lots of other practices that were dehumanizing have been eradicated.
- This nation helped to bring about more human freedom and self-governance, and the notion that all men are created equal more than any other. Calling the period of slavery "a dark period" is denying the fact that it and many other inhuman practices were regular parts of the human experience from forever. The fact that we finally came to our better senses, aided by war and conflict, is a positive testament to our greatness, not a reason to continue national self-flagellation and remonstration.
Let's start with these points:
- slavery has been a part of the human experience from before recorded history
- the U.S. did not invent slavery
- African slaves were first enslaved by other Africans
- there were more than just a few Black slave owners in the South
- other nations had black slaves
- the U.S. had a surprising number of Irish slaves, yes slaves, as well as indentured servants
- although the abolitionist movement was strongest in the north, many Union states had slavery. Politically, the North did not go to war to end slavery (as an immediate goal)
- many in the south opposed slavery as well, even though it was a political part of the establishment of the Confederacy
- Slavery is a terrible institution, and needed to be abolished. The Civil War accomplished that probably at least 40-50 years before it would have ended in some other way
- lots of other practices that were dehumanizing have been eradicated.
- This nation helped to bring about more human freedom and self-governance, and the notion that all men are created equal more than any other. Calling the period of slavery "a dark period" is denying the fact that it and many other inhuman practices were regular parts of the human experience from forever. The fact that we finally came to our better senses, aided by war and conflict, is a positive testament to our greatness, not a reason to continue national self-flagellation and remonstration.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 6:20 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
You need to actually read and learn history, and not accept snippets of factoids that warp your naïveté into a frothy vehemence of ignorance.
Slavery ad the terrorism of black Americans at that time is not just a snippet unless you think the plight for states rights for White Southerns was greater than the dehumanizations of those African Slaves.
Which is basically what you're saying. Honoring those honorable confederate Soliders is more note worthy, especially for their cause of state rights, then the humanity of their fellow man.
somehow, it's honorable to live in defiance and stand up for your liberties and freedoms ... To deny the liberties and freedoms of others. And those men should be honored for the extraordinary effort they put forth to continue the institutions that were vital to their existence. Especially because white Southerns lives >>> any black slave.
If that's not arse backwards, twisted, and unamerican then I don't know what is/
and we wonder why blacks always bring it up
This post was edited on 9/22/15 at 6:21 pm
Posted on 9/22/15 at 6:39 pm to CoopsjwReed
Blacks always bring it up because they are invested in their victim narrative.
Read this article by Shelby Steele:
The Age of White Guilt and the Disappearance of the Black Individua
Read this article by Shelby Steele:
The Age of White Guilt and the Disappearance of the Black Individua
quote:
It doesn’t help that he locates the cause of black weakness in things like “structural racism” and “uneven playing fields,” because there has been so little correlation between the remedies for such problems and actual black improvement. Blacks from families that make $100,1300 a year or more perform worse on the SAT than whites from families that make $10,000 a year or less. After decades of racial preferences blacks remain the lowest performing student group in American higher education. And once they are out of college and in professions, their own children also underperform in relation to their white and Asian peers. Thus, this young man must also nurture the idea of a black psychological woundedness that is baroque in its capacity to stifle black aspiration. And all his faith, his proud belief, must be in the truth of this woundedness and the injustice that caused it, because this is his only avenue to racial pride. He is a figure of pathos because his faith in racial victimization is his only release from racial shame. - See more at: https://www.cir-usa.org/1999/11/the-age-of-white-guilt-and-the-disappearance-of-the-black-individual/#sthash.KvvTa2IP.dpuf
Posted on 9/22/15 at 6:52 pm to CoopsjwReed
quote:
Which is basically what you're saying. Honoring those honorable confederate Soliders is more note worthy, especially for their cause of state rights, then the humanity of their fellow man.
No. It's not either/or.
I can and DO celebrate the victory of the North. The victory of Blacks in overcoming Racism and Slavery and subjugation.
Even those who used violence to break their chains are honorable!
To demonize the South and all participants in the war is simply ignorant. The galantry and code of honor that was displayed during tremendously adverse conditions was part of many of those men's character and is something to be honored and emulated.
These are our forebears - ALL of our forbears! The conflict and external struggle was part of our national story. The people of history were just as much a mixed bag of good and bad as people are today.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 7:03 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
Blacks always bring it up because they are invested in their victim narrative.
Whether you want to believe it or not, I can say with a huge level of certainty that my white skin color opens doors that won't open for a lot of blacks. I recognize that I do have a level of privilege based on the hue of my skin. That's the reality of the world we live in. A mutltitude of studies done have substantiated these disparities. A perfect example is you have a job applicant with the name David, and another job applicant with the name Demarcus that have almost identical qualifications. Demarcus's resume will end up in the trash because the recruiter is under the assumption that Demarcus is black from his name, and although he has all the experience that David has, him being black negates that. This happens all the time. I work in an industry that's predominantly white, and I see bias all the time in their hiring practices. Blacks have a reason to be upset in this country. Native Americans got their casinos, Jews got tons of money in reparations, but it wasn't until less than 40 years ago that blacks started getting basic fundamental rights in this country. I'm definitely all for rising above your circumstances to make something out of yourself, and I'm generally against self-entitlement and handouts, but race relations and the plight of blacks isn't going to change in this nation until we acknowledge that we have built a system that favors the majority, and disenfranchises the minority, and work on fixing it.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 7:04 pm to Maverick01
((yawn))
Posted on 9/22/15 at 7:11 pm to WhitewaterDawg
quote:
((yawn))
It's easy to be dismissive and indifferent. It's a lot harder to actually care. Try giving a shite. Nobody ever made it to the finish line alone. The last thing this country needs anymore of is division.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 7:18 pm to Maverick01
You need to get with the times. The amount of bias built into the system in favor of blacks is enormous. If you think a quality black candidate with an equivalent resume to a white doesn't have a huge advantage, you're misinformed. That goes double for any company that has government contracts and triple for any governmental job.
The list of redistributionist programs specifically designed for blacks, as well as those programs that while not ostensibly designated for blacks are nevertheless mostly utilized by blacks is unending.
My guess is that you are afflicted with the attitude of soft racism. It's pervasive, especially among progressives. You make assumptions that black individuals are incapable of completing on an even playing field, and so you look for examples that support your point of view so as to ease your guilt. You inadvertently are perpetuating the very thing you think you are working to rectify.
The list of redistributionist programs specifically designed for blacks, as well as those programs that while not ostensibly designated for blacks are nevertheless mostly utilized by blacks is unending.
My guess is that you are afflicted with the attitude of soft racism. It's pervasive, especially among progressives. You make assumptions that black individuals are incapable of completing on an even playing field, and so you look for examples that support your point of view so as to ease your guilt. You inadvertently are perpetuating the very thing you think you are working to rectify.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 7:20 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
My guess is that you are afflicted with the attitude of soft racism. It's pervasive, especially among progressives. You make assumptions that black individuals are incapable of completing on an even playing field, and so you look for examples that support your point of view so as to ease your guilt. You inadvertently are perpetuating the very thing you think you are working to rectify.
most definitely, the white guilt is strong with him.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 7:24 pm to Maverick01
quote:
Whether you want to believe it or not, I can say with a huge level of certainty that my white skin color opens doors that won't open for a lot of blacks.
Well you want to believe it or not that is because blacks have proven incapable of building a society of their own that is competitive on the world stage.
Hell, there isn't a successful black dominated municipality in the entire US and they took those over after white people built them up.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 7:35 pm to gthog61
quote:
Well you want to believe it or not that is because blacks have proven incapable of building a society of their own that is competitive on the world stage. Hell, there isn't a successful black dominated municipality in the entire US and they took those over after white people built them up.
Are you daft? There is a reason blacks in this country are behind the eight ball. Of course predominantly black communities in this country aren't teeming with positive growth. They are still facing inequality on almost every level. This country has been oppressing blacks for hundreds of years, so I think it's going to take more than a few decades to undo that damage.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 7:44 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
The list of redistributionist programs specifically designed for blacks, as well as those programs that while not ostensibly designated for blacks are nevertheless mostly utilized by blacks is unending.
Those programs are dog and pony shows. A lot of companies market diversity, but not many actually embody it, and far fewer embrace it for reasons other than protecting themselves from a class action lawsuit. The fact that we need programs like that anyway to level the playing field goes to show you how entrenched racism is within this country.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 8:19 pm to Maverick01
quote:
I can't believe you're trying to make the case that because a small faction of slaves lived in relative comfort in comparison to poor white farmers,
that must count for something.
I'm not making that case. I'm reiterating the issue is extremely, extraordinarily more complex that a lot of people want to admit.
quote:
These people were uprooted from their native homes
Of course that was true for much of slavery, but by 1861, most slaves were born here.
quote:
many were separated from their families
One of the particular horrors of slavery in the American experience was, even if everything else was pretty nice (relatively speaking), there was always this risk of having husband/wife sold off, children separate in a succession proceeding, etc., etc.
quote:
d killed into submission, they were hunted down like animals, they were robbed of any shred of dignity they had left, and they benefited from none of that.
All true.
quote:
Even after they were freed they endured financial slavery through sharecropping.
And while true, I would be remiss if I did not reiterate that many of those formerly landless white dirt farmers ALSO sharecropped for generations after the war, much like their black counterparts, largely until the Great Depression. (Two wrongs do not make a right.)
quote:
These people went through sheer and complete hell.
As have every conquered and displaced people have - throughout history. Might I add the 20th Century, under American influence that started to change, ever so slightly.
quote:
Shame on my ancestors for contributing to these human rights atrocities.
No argument, here.
quote:
This is not a heritage I have any reason to be proud of.
Meh. I'm a reasonable, practical enough man to look at the soldiers of the Confederacy and their military commanders and detach that from the atrocities of slavery. I can do it for Alexander the Great, I can do it for Julius Caesar, why can't I do it for my own people?
Posted on 9/22/15 at 8:45 pm to Ace Midnight
Although we may see differently on some things. I agree with you on most things.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 8:49 pm to Maverick01
I'll get to this later---
but ill touch on this briefly here. You can check any history book--- revisionist and contemparies constantly suggest that blacks have it good and their all their pit falls are their fallings. It's been a constant theme of rhetoric throughout social American history. Seemingly, time passes and those critics are always proven wrong. They are doing nothing different, rhetorically, than what slave masters did 150 years ago. That'll probably bother some folks but is plenty of artifacts and literature to back it up.
Its a form of cognitive dissonance and a form of shielding oneselve from the realities that were and are.
What we've done is given a group a bad start with a couple of broken legs, and then continually blamed them for not being us to finish line when we started at the finish line. Every pit fall along the way because a self-fulfilling prophecy. Take jobs out the community, white flight, lawlessness ensues "well there they go again, they ruin everything they touch."
There l are a litany of things, policies, and social constructs that have helped perpetuated the Almost learned helplessness of the black plight and I think it's just very ignorant to suggest for a second that black people have the easiet road. Every single historical metric, and current metric would suggest that that is wholly false, but as most do on this board, they will willfully ignore that to make sure their sensibilities are intact.
And those sensibilities always get Proven wrong.
but ill touch on this briefly here. You can check any history book--- revisionist and contemparies constantly suggest that blacks have it good and their all their pit falls are their fallings. It's been a constant theme of rhetoric throughout social American history. Seemingly, time passes and those critics are always proven wrong. They are doing nothing different, rhetorically, than what slave masters did 150 years ago. That'll probably bother some folks but is plenty of artifacts and literature to back it up.
Its a form of cognitive dissonance and a form of shielding oneselve from the realities that were and are.
What we've done is given a group a bad start with a couple of broken legs, and then continually blamed them for not being us to finish line when we started at the finish line. Every pit fall along the way because a self-fulfilling prophecy. Take jobs out the community, white flight, lawlessness ensues "well there they go again, they ruin everything they touch."
There l are a litany of things, policies, and social constructs that have helped perpetuated the Almost learned helplessness of the black plight and I think it's just very ignorant to suggest for a second that black people have the easiet road. Every single historical metric, and current metric would suggest that that is wholly false, but as most do on this board, they will willfully ignore that to make sure their sensibilities are intact.
And those sensibilities always get Proven wrong.
Posted on 9/22/15 at 9:07 pm to CoopsjwReed
The South wanted to keep slavery. To do so they had to secede, which they believed was legal. The North wanted to keep the Union intact regardless of the reason. Had it not been slavery it would have been desegregation, or gay marriage, or fighting in Europe, or something else, at some point in the nation's history that would have led to a conflict. So slavery was the catalyst, but it could have, or more likely would have, been something else given time, until the issue of secession was finally resolved.
Posted on 9/23/15 at 12:16 am to RollTide1987
Just got done watching all those videos. That was great stuff. 
Page 4 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News