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When was the last time you recall the Saints having THIS big a hole at a position group?
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:41 am
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:41 am
Besides QB, of course.
When was the last time you can remember this much of a desperate need anywhere as we have on almost the entire OL?
It has been a long time. The Saints since the Loomis/Payton era have normally done a good job at filling holes in FA.
Maybe there is a need for a DT, or a WR etc here and there. Hey they need another starting CB or S. Sure.
But THIS? Where the OL is in total shambles and they need to add possibly 3 starters to it? And the backup situation is bad too?
On top of that...what teams in the league have position group problems as bad as this one?
When was the last time you can remember this much of a desperate need anywhere as we have on almost the entire OL?
It has been a long time. The Saints since the Loomis/Payton era have normally done a good job at filling holes in FA.
Maybe there is a need for a DT, or a WR etc here and there. Hey they need another starting CB or S. Sure.
But THIS? Where the OL is in total shambles and they need to add possibly 3 starters to it? And the backup situation is bad too?
On top of that...what teams in the league have position group problems as bad as this one?
6
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:42 am to Fun Bunch
This is the culmination of the cap doesn't exist, bro mentality.
Trading future top assets to move up to over-draft an OL can set us back for 5+ years (in combination with the above cap disaster)
Trading future top assets to move up to over-draft an OL can set us back for 5+ years (in combination with the above cap disaster)
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:42 am to Fun Bunch
Probably 2006 LB
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:44 am to SlowFlowPro
It’s a culmination of bad picks(Penning, Ruiz to an extent) and bad luck(Ram).
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:47 am to DBG
quote:
It’s a culmination of bad picks(Penning, Ruiz to an extent)
Bad picks happen at roughly the same rate across the board.
You counter that by accumulating as many picks as you can. Over time, that volume produces better rosters.
So while this isn't in the cap doesn't exist bro strategy directly, it is in the same tomorrow doesn't matter overall strategy our team has.
No team is amazing at identifying talent in the draft. This is a myth that egotistical Pro Player/GM guys sell themselves. You get good at drafting by having a lot of picks.
quote:
and bad luck(Ram).
His issues were known and were a major reason why we had the opportunity to draft him so late.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:49 am to DBG
I was going to say 2006 as well. And interestingly during that draft you actually saw the Saints make draft position trades that involved accumulating veteran players
2006
Traded 2nd Round pick (No. 34, D’Qwell Jackson) to Browns for Jeff Faine and 2nd Round pick (No. 43, Roman Harper)
Traded 4th Round pick (No. 99, Max Jean-Gilles) to Eagles for Hollis Thomas and 4th Round pick (No. 108, Jahri Evans)
Traded Wayne Gandy to Falcons for Bryan Scott and conditional 2007 7th Round pick (No. 220, Marvin Mitchell)
Saints also traded for Mark Simoneau in August of that year.
2006
Traded 2nd Round pick (No. 34, D’Qwell Jackson) to Browns for Jeff Faine and 2nd Round pick (No. 43, Roman Harper)
Traded 4th Round pick (No. 99, Max Jean-Gilles) to Eagles for Hollis Thomas and 4th Round pick (No. 108, Jahri Evans)
Traded Wayne Gandy to Falcons for Bryan Scott and conditional 2007 7th Round pick (No. 220, Marvin Mitchell)
Saints also traded for Mark Simoneau in August of that year.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:50 am to Fun Bunch
quote:Damn. I was going to point to the Billy Jo years
Besides QB, of course.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:50 am to Fun Bunch
Roster is old and depleted. Roster is in great position for a new GM and HC for next year. Our fan base needs this.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:51 am to SlowFlowPro
I’m talking specifically about Penning though, not the aggregate. If we had taken Tyler Smith instead, you can still hate the trade but we’d be in a significantly better position on field wise.
He had a hip injury, not a degenerative knee.
quote:
His issues were known and were a major reason why we had the opportunity to draft him so late.
He had a hip injury, not a degenerative knee.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:56 am to DBG
quote:
I’m talking specifically about Penning though
A guy we gave up chances to draft well by moving up.
That's why you don't do that except for QBs
quote:
If we had taken Tyler Smith instead, you can still hate the trade but we’d be in a significantly better position on field wise.
Why would we have needed to trade up to take a guy who went 24th?
Posted on 4/25/24 at 9:58 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Why would we have needed to trade up to take a guy who went 24th?
He’s just an example boy. Subsititute whoever you want for Penning, the value, or lack thereof, is mitigated if the player is actually good and helping win games.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:03 am to DBG
quote:
He’s just an example boy.
An example of why not to trade up.
quote:
Subsititute whoever you want for Penning, the value, or lack thereof, is mitigated if the player is actually good and helping win games.
The decision is still bad. That's the problem.
The strategy is bad and leads to -EV decisions, which lead to suboptimal results.
That's exactly why we are in such a shitty situation across the entire team/franchise. The chickens are coming home to roost.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:04 am to DBG
quote:
Subsititute whoever you want for Penning, the value, or lack thereof, is mitigated if the player is actually good and helping win games.
Still took value of multiple picks to land one guy. That’s a strategy you don’t want to embark on too many times even if it hits on occasion. When it misses like in Penning you really frick yourself.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:07 am to SlowFlowPro
I don’t disagree that decision making process is bad, but that same decision making process landed us Alvin Kamara, among others. The patriots have traded back a million times and they draft like shite and have had a terrible roster for years now. I don’t know what the “optimal” strategy is. Probably mostly luck.
Bottom line, hitting on the player is what matters most.
Bottom line, hitting on the player is what matters most.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:07 am to St Augustine
quote:
That’s a strategy you don’t want to embark on too many times even if it hits on occasion. When it misses like in Penning you really frick yourself.
Don’t disagree
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:10 am to DBG
quote:
I don’t disagree that decision making process is bad, but that same decision making process landed us Alvin Kamara, among others.
2017 was an outlier and was 7 years ago
quote:
I don’t know what the “optimal” strategy is. Probably mostly luck.
This is why you accumulate as many picks as possible.
You know how to increase your "luck"? Increase your number of lottery tickets/bets.
quote:
Bottom line, hitting on the player is what matters most.
No team "hits on players" regularly. That's the problem.
There is a rate (not sure what it is, but I'm sure it can be found) for successful draft picks. Let's just say it's 33%. If you have 6 picks on average, you'll get 2 hits every year. If you have 3 picks on average, you'll get 1 hit every year.
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This is the culmination of the cap doesn't exist, bro mentality.
I think this is more of the culmination of missing in the draft and double downing on stupid.
Really need to not trade up and be stupid.
We are depleted at MANY positions:
OL 1 good starter.
DL 2 good starters.
S 1 old starter.
LB 1 old starter.
The only positions we have a surplus is CB.
The rest are average at best right now:
QB
RB
TE
This post was edited on 4/25/24 at 10:15 am
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:13 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
2017 was an outlier and was 7 years ago
Mike Triplett recently broke it down in the Jeff Ireland era. Most of the early trade ups were successful. The recent ones haven’t. I don’t know what to draw from that.
quote:
This is why you accumulate as many picks as possible.
You know how to increase your "luck"? Increase your number of lottery tickets/bets.
If we didn’t have the worst OT situation in NFL history, I’m happy to do that.
Hopefully this is all moot and this run on OTs is a smokescreen
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:14 am to Fun Bunch
I think we need to rip the cap bandaid off now.
If the Broncos can get rid of Russ after a year, we can dump Carr.
Amass future assets
Take our big cap hits now and next year
Suck for 2 years
???
Profit
If the Broncos can get rid of Russ after a year, we can dump Carr.
Amass future assets
Take our big cap hits now and next year
Suck for 2 years
???
Profit
Posted on 4/25/24 at 10:16 am to DBG
quote:
Mike Triplett recently broke it down in the Jeff Ireland era. Most of the early trade ups were successful. The recent ones haven’t. I don’t know what to draw from that.
It all evens out over time, like all statistics.
Our front office developed an overall organizational strategy over outlier-positive outcomes in the short-term. It's completely fricked us long-term once variance evened things out over time.
I saw a lady one time play almost every hand in 3-6-12 limit, play terribly, and win like $1200 in about 90 minutes. This was in like 2010. I guarantee you if she kept playing, and played that way, she's down 5-figures by now.
quote:
If we didn’t have the worst OT situation in NFL history, I’m happy to do that.
That is irrelevant unless you think we are a Super Bowl contender this year.
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