Posted by
Message
maxxrajun70
LSU Fan
baton rouge
Member since Oct 2011
1023 posts

It has to be the defensive scheme right?
I just cannot understand how these professional players continue to be so confused and out of place. They cannot be that bad. It is just being so out schemed its hard to watch.

If there is any hope they need to fire Dennis Allen and promote Mike Nolan.


oreeg
New Orleans Saints Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
3553 posts

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
How many defensive coordinators do we have to run through for you people to realize that we are just completely devoid of talent on that side of the ball?

Gregg Williams - Steve Spagnuolo - Rob Ryan - Dennis Allen

The results have been the same every year.

However, I will admit that because our personnel is so bad Allen seems to coach scared. Example, playing a 10-15 yard cushion on a RB/FB split out wide on 1st&10. It's like he's conceding 5 yards on 1st down and just hoping to get to 3rd down. Problem is teams know exactly where to attack us on 3rd downs and without a pass rush, it becomes way too easy to convert on this team.
This post was edited on 9/18 at 8:22 am


50_Tiger
LSU Fan
Dallas TX
Member since Jan 2016
9891 posts

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
quote:

Gregg William - Steve Spagnuolo - Rob Ryan - Dennis Allen



One of these is not like the others


Rand AlThor
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2014
5425 posts

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
quote:

How many defensive coordinators do we have to run through for you people to realize that we are just completely devoid of talent on that side of the ball?


It's easy to say this, but there is some evidence to support this is not right.

Several of our defensive players have left and been decent elsewhere. Recent examples: Malcolm Jenkins, Akiem Hicks, Patrick Robinson.

Somehow, unbelievably, this team has replicated or surpassed the "worst defense of all times" several times despite changing the players up. We have 7 new starters on defense this year. Are you telling me that somehow the Saints have found the worst group of defenders of all time more than once in the same 5 year span? I just don't buy it.

To me this is similar to the Les Miles offensive conundrum. LSU's offense looked the same despite a ton of different coordinators. Why? Because Les Miles was meddling in the offense.


oreeg
New Orleans Saints Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
3553 posts

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
Well with us drafting poorly and botching FA, we are more reliant on unproven, young players year in and year out.

Last year, we had a couple injuries in the secondary and were forced to start a UDRFA and a guy signed off the street.


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
01
oreeg
New Orleans Saints Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
3553 posts

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
I will give Gregg Williams a bit of credit because he knew his team was outmatched and went all out over-aggressive. It worked out sometimes (2009) but eventually led to his demise in (2010 & 2011).


Hoodoo Man
LSU Fan
Sunshine Pumping most days.
Member since Oct 2011
26483 posts

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
I don't buy that talent is the problem.

I think in recent years, it was due to both scheme and poor coaching up.

I'm not sure if the coaching up has improved, but the schemes are just as bad.


RedPop4
USA Fan
Santiago de Compostela
Member since Jan 2005
8500 posts

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
Three different DC. and three different schemes, with revolving doors. What remains the constant?


GynoSandberg
Minnesota Fan
Member since Jan 2006
54723 posts
 Online 

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
yall wanted them to play more man


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
10
Rand AlThor
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2014
5425 posts

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
quote:

I will give Gregg Williams a bit of credit because he knew his team was outmatched and went all out over-aggressive. It worked out sometimes (2009) but eventually led to his demise in (2010 & 2011).



If Marcus Williams continues to look like he can be an impact turnover-creator then I think this might work for us again honestly


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
00
TD SponsorTD Fan
USA
Member since 2001
Thank you for supporting our sponsors
Advertisement
bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
10805 posts
 Online 

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
Definitely scheme as you can see the SAME EXACT issues from when Allen arrived in 2015 to right now, despite having different players every year.

And people want to blame lack of pass rush, but when you are letting guys run free in big open zones and giving up all the underneath stuff your rush isn't going to have time to get home.

And then the zone blitzes are even worse because they are too telegraphed and again leave even bigger holes in those zones.

And you can try to call Ryan bad but the fact is he turned the "worst defense of all time" around in one year to be the 4th best defense of that year with largely the same players.

Then Payton decides he wants the Seahawks defense the next year and brings in Byrd to be Earl Thomas and tells Ryan what scheme to run.

Then when that failed Payton brought back his buddy Allen to run the secondary, and they somehow got worse from 2014, yet Ryan gets the boot and Allen gets promoted.

Then last year you saw the same issues from 2016 and that you are seeing now.

Allen is the issue, and Payton is too. He should have left Ryan alone and not cut all of our defensive leaders (Smith, Vilma, Harper, and Jenkins) all in one off season. At the least you keep one of those guys for continuity. It's been downhill since that point.


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
41
bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
10805 posts
 Online 

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
quote:

Three different DC. and three different schemes, with revolving doors. What remains the constant?


Not the players. And now not the assistant coaches. So if you want to throw Allen out (you shouldn't because it's largely his fault) that leaves Payton.


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
10
WicKed WayZ
New Orleans Saints Fan
Is that Bruce Vilanch?
Member since Sep 2011
13495 posts

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
We have 3 Rookies starting this year, one of our best DLineman is done for the year with a bad heart, and we have two guys that were backups being used as starters, any D.C. Would struggle.



Having said that, I still believe Allen is a hack


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
10
DJ3K
New York Yankees Fan
Member since Dec 2011
2613 posts
 Online 

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
quote:

Gregg Williams - Steve Spagnuolo - Rob Ryan - Dennis Allen

The results have been the same every year.


No. No they are not

One of them won us a championship


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
00
LSUZombie
New Orleans Saints Fan
A Cemetery Near You
Member since Apr 2008
19195 posts

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
We have changed so many players that it's not them. It's the coaching and hiring bad coordinators who cannot use our players the right way.

We get different players each year, and the same results continue to happen.


Fun Bunch
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
50769 posts
 Online 

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
quote:

we are just completely devoid of talent on that side of the ball?


I think this is false. We constantly draft D very high, bring in FAs, etc, have guys that go elsewhere and do well.

As others have said, it has to be 100% cultural.


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
30
LaTexSaint
Southern Fan
Houston, Texas
Member since Jul 2013
270 posts

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
I think we have done a terrible job at drafting talent. We were running a 4-3 scheme, and then switched to a 3-4 with 4-3 talent.

Started drafting 3-4 talent, only to switch back to a 4-3.

Draft man corners only to play them in zone or zone corners and play them in man....

Acquire nickel DB's and try to have them as our starting CB.....

We are just in a stupid holding pattern right now, and can't land!



Replies (0)
Replies (0)
00
blueslover
New Orleans Saints Fan
deeper than deep south
Member since Sep 2007
22716 posts

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
that's a good summation Thor.

I posted similar in another thread. I don't doubt Vaccaro could follow in the steps of Jenkins and Hicks.

Can you pick that many bad DCs over 11 years? GreGG and Spagnulo are continuing successful DC gigs elsewhere. I never understood what made Allen such a hot up and comer. I don't see the results anywhere. That said, at this point I gotta put it on Payton. There is something wrong systemically for that much prolonged failure when you are plowing as much draft capital and free agent dollars as they have into defense.


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
10
bonethug0108
New Orleans Saints Fan
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
10805 posts
 Online 

re: It has to be the defensive scheme right?
Look ar Vaccaro as prime example of a player being misused.

When Ryan got him in 2013 he used him perfectly. Then when Payton mandated the Seahawks defense to Ryan in 2014 he was used as a deep safety until Payton relented and let Ryan run what he wanted towards the end of the year.

Then Allen comes in and while he changes his usage, he often puts him in a deep safety spot, which again is clearly not how he should be used.

It's like Spagnola all over again, trying to force players to his scheme instead of vice versa. And clearly it will continue to fail as long as Allen is here.


Replies (0)
Replies (0)
11
first pageprev pagePage 1 of 1next pagelast page
refresh

Back to top

logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookTwitterInstagram