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re: Is Eli Manning ahead of Brees now???
Posted on 2/6/12 at 3:39 pm to deuce985
Posted on 2/6/12 at 3:39 pm to deuce985
quote:
Yea, the more rings logic is bad.
quote:
Would I rather Eli on my team over Peyton? Yes. And the SB rings prove it because when it matters, Eli makes the plays.
quote:
Eli's throw last night and the previous SB basically were the two plays of each game...
Those plays basically set them up for a win. Clutch man, clutch. All about being clutch in the playoffs.
Do you not take into account his defense held one of the best offenses in the league to 17 points? No one can win by alone in football. Your teammates have to perform with you, which is why the rings logic is ridiculous.
1
Posted on 2/6/12 at 3:41 pm to deuce985
quote:
Does Drew have a shitty defense? Yes. Was Drew still throwing out his mind to put his team in position to win games in the playoffs? Yes
Drew also threw 2 int's in that San Francisco game, but you conveniently forget that.
quote:
And no I didn't say Big Ben or Eli is better than Brees
You're the one who said the rings argument is valid, not me. By that logic, Big Ben and Eli are better.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 3:46 pm to F machine
Yes, Drew threw 2 picks early in that game. Not when his team needed him the most. He threw out his mind the rest of the game, especially in the 4th. Against a GREAT defense I might add. Peyton has cost his team more than once when his team needed him the most. Eli has shown in the playoffs when they need that big throw...he can do it. And isn't like he is some scrub QB without regular season stats to back it up. Wasn't he just behind Brees with over 5k yards passing too? He is elite. Period.
Please point me to a situation where Peyton was in a critical moment during the playoffs and he consistently put his team in position to win when he needed to be clutch. Because it sure as hell wasn't either SB.
Please point me to a situation where Peyton was in a critical moment during the playoffs and he consistently put his team in position to win when he needed to be clutch. Because it sure as hell wasn't either SB.
This post was edited on 2/6/12 at 3:47 pm
Posted on 2/6/12 at 3:53 pm to deuce985
quote:
Peyton Manning is a amazing regular season QB. When the playoffs roll around, he chokes it up.
This is completly false. But whatever.
quote:
Peyton always looked horrible in the playoffs.
His stats are pretty much the same as Bardy and were better than Eli going into this year, I haven't seen updated stats
quote:
Hell, the AFC Championship game Peyton threw like 3 picks in that game when they won the SB. His defense came up with a miracle play towards the end that elevated them to success
They were down by 18 and won, they need more than defense, he did lead the game winning drive. Funny how you credit the defense for Indy, but not NYG and give credit to Eli when the team wins, but not Peyton.
quote:
Clutch situation against NO and he threw the game winning TD against the Saints
The int was as much on Wayne, the TD for Porter was all on Wayne.
quote:
Got knocked out of the playoffs multiple years by boneheaded TOs from HIM
Name them
quote:
Would I rather Eli on my team over Peyton? Yes. And the SB rings prove it because when it matters, Eli makes the plays.
Just to be clear, plays made in the playoffs in 2006 and 2009 don't matter. The Colts got to those 2 SB inspite of Peyton or because the defense or others made big plays.
Also, a 15-29-169 0 TD's, 2 pick game at home in the 2008 playoffs by Eli doesn't matter? Also a 4 pick game in a lose to GB in 2010, which kept the Giants out of the playoffs also doesn't count.
sounds like you are using different standards to judge them.
Peyton >> Eli, its not even debatable.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 3:55 pm to deuce985
quote:
He is elite. Period.
This isn't even the argument. The argument is whether he is better than Peyton, which he's not.
quote:
Please point me to a situation where Peyton was in a critical moment during the playoffs
Off the top of my head I can think of this one. Against the Steelers (I don't remember the exact year), Bettis fumbles, then Peyton drives his team down field, only to have Vanderjagt miss the kick to tie. Therein lies my point. Superbowl wins don't necessarily define a qb or make him better than others. Lots of things happen that make a qb win a Superbowl. Lucky breaks, a good defense, etc.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 3:56 pm to Hazelnut
quote:
Not sure why you're even asking this question. I'm guessing you're basing it on the reasoning of number of Super Bowl rings. If that's the case, using your logic, you think Trent Dilfer is ahead of Dan Marino.
quote:
Is Trent Dilfer ahead of Dan Marino?
Posted on 2/6/12 at 3:57 pm to F machine
quote:
Superbowl wins don't necessarily define a qb or make him better than others.
A few kicks and what not there lie forth difference of thy Jim kelly or John Elway or Tom Brady or Joe Montaina.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 4:01 pm to TheFreakyRobber
No. But I do think they are even in the eyes of the media.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 4:48 pm to F machine
quote:
Yea, the more rings logic is bad.
Winning one super bowl could be considered as luck but when you do it multiples times it is a different story. This doesn't happen by mistake.
Eli played great this year and elevated his play when his team needed it the most. Is he ahead of Brees? Meh. Brees is an excellent qb, no doubt about it. He, I believe is one of two reasons the Saints have been so successful over the past years. Payton being the other one.
I'll let these guys play a few more seasons before I would consider ranking them. There are few elite qbs in this league and Eli, with what he did this year, put himself in the discussion.
One last thing, for the people that state how good Brees would be with the Giants D? How good would Eli be with Payton?
Posted on 2/6/12 at 4:53 pm to deuce985
quote:
Not no but hell no. Eli is great, even elite among the big 4 in the NFL. But he isn't better than anyone in that top 4 except maybe his big bro. Peyton is perhaps the most overrated playoff QB ever.
Aaaand we have a post even more stupid than the OP. Nice
Posted on 2/6/12 at 5:01 pm to TheFreakyRobber
Uh no.
Go ask a Giants board, and the majority would probably tell you the same.
But I do think Eli is elite.
Go ask a Giants board, and the majority would probably tell you the same.
But I do think Eli is elite.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 5:02 pm to Jarrt476
quote:
One last thing, for the people that state how good Brees would be with the Giants D? How good would Eli be with Payton?
You honestly think that Eli is even on the same level as Brees? I agree he is elite, but Brees is on another level. Eli has never looked as good as Brees. Brees is the most accurate passer in NFL history. Sean Payton is a brilliant offensive mind and play caller, but Drew sets those records with the intangible greatness he bring to the game that Eli just doesnt have. He has set numerous records such as the single season yardage record this season, and he is weeks away from breaking the touchdown streak set by J Unitas. In light of recent posters who love to do this sort of thing, who do you think is better?
QB A NFL Records:
Single season passing leader – 5,476 yards (2011)
Most completions in a season – 468 (2011)
Most 300+ yard passing games in a season – 13 (2011)
Most consecutive 300+ yard passing games – 7 (2011) (Weeks 10,12,13,14,15,16,17; 2011)
Most consecutive games with 350+ yards passing – 4 (Weeks 3,4,5,6; 2011)
Highest completion percentage, season – 71.2% (2011)
Highest post-season completion percentage, career – 66.7%
Lowest post-season interception percentage, career – 0.70%
Most completions in a Super Bowl – 32 (Super Bowl XLIV; tied with Tom Brady)
Most consecutive seasons with 4000+ passing yards – 6 (2006-2011; tied with Peyton Manning)
Most consecutive seasons with 4000+ passing yards and 30+ Touchdowns – 4, 2008-current
Most games with 20+ completions, season – 16 (2010,2011)
Most passing completions per game, career – 23.4 comp/game
Most consecutive 350+ completion seasons, career – 6 (2006-2011)
Most 400+ completion seasons, career – 4 (2007, 2008, 2010, 2011)
Most passing yards per game, career – 263.7 yards/game
Most passing attempts per game, career – 35.5 att/game
Most completions in a playoff game – 39 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)[20]
Most pass attempts in a playoff game with zero interceptions – 60 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)[20]
Most consecutive pass attempts without an interception during the playoffs – 215 [2006 – 2011]
Most consecutive games with at least 20 completions – 36 [21]
Most Seasons with 5000+ passing yards- 2 (2008 & 2011)
Most Seasons with 20+ completions, season – 2 (2010 & 2011)
QB B NFL Records:
Most road playoff wins
Most 4th quarter touchdowns in a season
Longest pass completion and touchdown.
Damn, after typing that there is actually one stat of Eli's I'm kind of jealous of.
This post was edited on 2/6/12 at 5:06 pm
Posted on 2/6/12 at 5:03 pm to TheFreakyRobber
Drew Brees got screwed out of at least two more Super Bowls because of shitty defense. Not to mention he constantly has to carry the team because a certain unit can not stop assholes like Alex Smith. Manning hit the jackpot this year. All the way from that Miles Austin drop in the 1st Cowboys game to the Welker drop in the Super Bowl.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 5:09 pm to TheFreakyRobber
quote:
Is Eli Manning ahead of Brees now???
Eli
24,132 passing yards
58.2 comp pct
164 Tds
81.1 QB Rating
Brees
40,742 passing yards
66.0 comp pct
281 Tds
103.7 QB Rating
No
Posted on 2/6/12 at 5:10 pm to geauxtigahs87
Combine that with my post and this thread should rest.
ETA: Who is ahead of who?
QB A:
40,742 passing yards
66.0 comp pct
281 Tds
103.7 QB Rating
NFL Records:
Single season passing leader – 5,476 yards (2011)
Most completions in a season – 468 (2011)
Most 300+ yard passing games in a season – 13 (2011)
Most consecutive 300+ yard passing games – 7 (2011) (Weeks 10,12,13,14,15,16,17; 2011)
Most consecutive games with 350+ yards passing – 4 (Weeks 3,4,5,6; 2011)
Highest completion percentage, season – 71.2% (2011)
Highest post-season completion percentage, career – 66.7%
Lowest post-season interception percentage, career – 0.70%
Most completions in a Super Bowl – 32 (Super Bowl XLIV; tied with Tom Brady)
Most consecutive seasons with 4000+ passing yards – 6 (2006-2011; tied with Peyton Manning)
Most consecutive seasons with 4000+ passing yards and 30+ Touchdowns – 4, 2008-current
Most games with 20+ completions, season – 16 (2010,2011)
Most passing completions per game, career – 23.4 comp/game
Most consecutive 350+ completion seasons, career – 6 (2006-2011)
Most 400+ completion seasons, career – 4 (2007, 2008, 2010, 2011)
Most passing yards per game, career – 263.7 yards/game
Most passing attempts per game, career – 35.5 att/game
Most completions in a playoff game – 39 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)[20]
Most pass attempts in a playoff game with zero interceptions – 60 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)[20]
Most consecutive pass attempts without an interception during the playoffs – 215 [2006 – 2011]
Most consecutive games with at least 20 completions – 36 [21]
Most Seasons with 5000+ passing yards- 2 (2008 & 2011)
Most Seasons with 20+ completions, season – 2 (2010 & 2011)
QB B:
24,132 passing yards
58.2 comp pct
164 Tds
81.1 QB Rating
NFL Records:
Most road playoff wins
Most 4th quarter touchdowns in a season
Longest pass completion and touchdown
ETA: Who is ahead of who?
QB A:
40,742 passing yards
66.0 comp pct
281 Tds
103.7 QB Rating
NFL Records:
Single season passing leader – 5,476 yards (2011)
Most completions in a season – 468 (2011)
Most 300+ yard passing games in a season – 13 (2011)
Most consecutive 300+ yard passing games – 7 (2011) (Weeks 10,12,13,14,15,16,17; 2011)
Most consecutive games with 350+ yards passing – 4 (Weeks 3,4,5,6; 2011)
Highest completion percentage, season – 71.2% (2011)
Highest post-season completion percentage, career – 66.7%
Lowest post-season interception percentage, career – 0.70%
Most completions in a Super Bowl – 32 (Super Bowl XLIV; tied with Tom Brady)
Most consecutive seasons with 4000+ passing yards – 6 (2006-2011; tied with Peyton Manning)
Most consecutive seasons with 4000+ passing yards and 30+ Touchdowns – 4, 2008-current
Most games with 20+ completions, season – 16 (2010,2011)
Most passing completions per game, career – 23.4 comp/game
Most consecutive 350+ completion seasons, career – 6 (2006-2011)
Most 400+ completion seasons, career – 4 (2007, 2008, 2010, 2011)
Most passing yards per game, career – 263.7 yards/game
Most passing attempts per game, career – 35.5 att/game
Most completions in a playoff game – 39 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)[20]
Most pass attempts in a playoff game with zero interceptions – 60 (at Seattle, 1/8/2011)[20]
Most consecutive pass attempts without an interception during the playoffs – 215 [2006 – 2011]
Most consecutive games with at least 20 completions – 36 [21]
Most Seasons with 5000+ passing yards- 2 (2008 & 2011)
Most Seasons with 20+ completions, season – 2 (2010 & 2011)
QB B:
24,132 passing yards
58.2 comp pct
164 Tds
81.1 QB Rating
NFL Records:
Most road playoff wins
Most 4th quarter touchdowns in a season
Longest pass completion and touchdown
This post was edited on 2/6/12 at 5:12 pm
Posted on 2/6/12 at 5:20 pm to Breesus
I was just trying to get these people to look at it from a different angle.
If you really want to compare them it would take a much deeper analysis. They play in very different schemes. Eli was given a chance this year and he did extremely well. Brees is as good as anyone. But I feel you would have to look much deeper to really compare the two. Honestly I could care less to look into it because it isn't that important to me. Give me either one with Payton in an environment that his offense will thrive, like the dome and I think you would see some spectacular things out of Eli and we know how Brees performs.
Eli also has two rings, which in my book is as proving as anything.
quote:
You honestly think that Eli is even on the same level as Brees?
If you really want to compare them it would take a much deeper analysis. They play in very different schemes. Eli was given a chance this year and he did extremely well. Brees is as good as anyone. But I feel you would have to look much deeper to really compare the two. Honestly I could care less to look into it because it isn't that important to me. Give me either one with Payton in an environment that his offense will thrive, like the dome and I think you would see some spectacular things out of Eli and we know how Brees performs.
Eli also has two rings, which in my book is as proving as anything.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 5:46 pm to Jarrt476
Anyone who says yes would also be saying that Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 5:56 pm to DCBJR6
No, in this aspect we were comparing Brees and Eli, not all qbs.
Posted on 2/6/12 at 5:58 pm to Jarrt476
The question is based on Eli being ahead, because of having more rings than Drew. Trent won a ring and Dan didn't. How isn't it the same aspect?
This post was edited on 2/6/12 at 5:59 pm
Posted on 2/6/12 at 6:02 pm to TheFreakyRobber
quote:
Is Eli Manning ahead of Brees now?
Absolutely not.
I still don't think Eli is a lock for Top 5; it's at least debatable.
Rodgers
Brees
Brady
Peyton (when healthy)
Rivers/Big Ben/Eli
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