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re: tBW: Could Greg Monroe now be a possibility?
Posted on 5/14/15 at 3:56 pm to mm2316
Posted on 5/14/15 at 3:56 pm to mm2316
quote:
I wouldn't hate it, but my first choice is to pass on Monroe. If you're going to pay that much for a Center, he should be able to protect the rim.
I agree. Monroe isn't some offensive juggernaut like some people think. When you add in his minus defense, I'm not sure he's really that much of an upgrade. The fascination with him is rooted in his being from New Orleans.
0
Posted on 5/14/15 at 3:56 pm to mm2316
quote:
f you're going to pay that much for a Center, he should be able to protect the rim.
I agree. Its not my ideal scenario.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:00 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Come on man. Come on.
Monroe is a significantly better offensive player. It is not even close.
I'm not arguing that at all. He's certainly a better offensive player, but he's not x100000000 times better like you so lovingly put it. Sorry if my objective stats don't jive with you subjective wishes. I'm just putting the facts out there.
Again, Monroe is a better offensive player, but he's not some juggernaut that makes you forget his defensive weaknesses.
This post was edited on 5/14/15 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:02 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
but he's not x100000000 times better like you so lovingly put it.
Right. Because that wasn't hyperbole. Jesus.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:03 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Right. Because that wasn't hyperbole. Jesus.
Dude, why so defensive and argumentative? Was anything that I said that absurd or even untrue?
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:04 pm to Fun Bunch
There is a ton of assumption that a good defensive coach couldn't get Monroe to play mediocre or slightly better defense next to AD. Drummond is a beast, but he's built more like DJ. AD is more versatile without the obvious build to bang around down low and swat shots. Maybe Monroe would thrive more in the Drummond role than the Davis role.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:07 pm to ShamelessPel
quote:
There is a ton of assumption that a good defensive coach couldn't get Monroe to play mediocre or slightly better defense next to AD. Drummond is a beast, but he's built more like DJ. AD is more versatile without the obvious build to bang around down low and swat shots. Maybe Monroe would thrive more in the Drummond role than the Davis role.
Monroe has been in the league for 5 years and has played plenty of minutes at the 5. A really good defensive coach may be able to mask his deficiencies some, but he's not going to turn the guy into a defensive power. Asik has played strong D for multiple coaches on multiple teams. We know that much.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:08 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Dude, why so defensive and argumentative?
You've been even more argumentative than usual since Monty was fired. Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:11 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Monroe is a terrible rim protector
And Asik is some great rim protector?
I'm not saying Monroe is, b/c he isn't, but Asik isnt' great.
List of people ahead of him on rim protection LINK:
Gobert
Bogut
Hibbert
Hensen
Whiteside
Ibaka
Len
Noel
Plumlee
Valanciunas
Aldrich
Duncan
R Lopez
Mahinmi
P Gasol
Mozgov
Zeller
Nurkic
Serphin
Drummond
Speights
Chandler
Birdman
AD is our rim protector, regardless who our center is and what stats are shown.
I dont know how much i'd like having Monroe.
I'd like him over $12 million dollar long term Asik
Not sure I like him over $8-9 million dollar Asik with Thibs.
Better perimeter defense and defensive scheme as a whole can make AD and Monroe work good enough on the defensive side. Sky's the limit on the offensive side.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:12 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
You've been even more argumentative than usual since Monty was fired.
I've just been more active because of the activity going on. I just touched a raw nerve pointing out that the Pelicans are currently better than the Saints.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:12 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
List of people ahead of him on rim protection
No Monroe
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:13 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
If we hire Thibs I would try and trade Ryno for Deng and bring in Mike Dunleavy with the MLE. Dunleavy helps replace Ryno with a player we know Thibs will play and because we know Thibs will play him, it gives him a guy he trusts enough not to run Deng into the ground again. Then trade Tyreke for backup defensive bigs and future assets.
Holiday/Cole
Gordon/Pondexter
Deng/Dunleavy
AD/TyrekeTrade/Cunningham
Asik/Ajinca/Withey
Yeah. Or they could dump them both for picks on draft night, revoke Asik's rights, and try to wrangle in Gasol and Demarre Carroll. I wouldn't mind a line-up of...
Holiday/Cole
Gordon/Pondexter/Justin Anderson
Carroll/Pondexter/Cunningham
Ad/Frank Kaminsk (just spitballing here)/Cunningham
Gasol/Kaminsk//Withey
This post was edited on 5/14/15 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:15 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Dude, why so defensive and argumentative? Was anything that I said that absurd or even untrue?
Nothing was absurd, you're just being a bit nitpicky to me, but no big deal. No harm no foul. I'm just in a mood right now.
But let's look at the numbers:
I'll list OA's first and GM's second in each category
PPG
5.9
14.3
PPG per 36
10.3
16.5
FT%
55.3
69.3
ORB
2.4
3.2
FG%
.531
.505
OWS
6.3
19.3
PER
14.3
19.7
ORTG
107
109
DRTG
101
106
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:15 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I'm not saying Monroe is, b/c he isn't, but Asik isnt' great.
We don't have camera data for his time in Chicago to rate his actual rim protection, but his defensive stats in Chicago were elite. DRtgs of 97 and 92, and Defensive Win Shares of 2.2 and 2.5 in limited minutes and games (season 2 was the lockout season). Looking at the minutes those should be 4.5 or higher with regular rotation minutes and a full season in year 2.
This post was edited on 5/14/15 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:15 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
AD is our rim protector, regardless who our center is and what stats are shown
AD is absolutely not a rim protector. He steps out to defend and is a fantastic weak side and recovery defender. He is not what people refer to as a rim protector.
You post a list of rim protection to show people are better than Asik, then say you don't care if it shows that Asik is better than Davis. That is dumb, dog.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:16 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
No Monroe
Point is, he's not as great of a defensive center as people make him out to be.
People assume hes some elite defender b/c he's so terrible on offense.
He's a good defensive center, that struggles to play against athletic fast pace teams, which elements every team but Memphis, Chicago and Indiana
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:17 pm to HickfawJim1
Good luck getting gasol, seriously. Not happening
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:18 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
We don't have camera data for his time in Chicago to rate his actual rim protection, but his defensive stats in Chicago were elite.
And yet Chicago has stayed pretty elite without him. Can we maybe infer that Asik was a bit overrated defensively due to Thibs' system, and that while he is a good defender, he is not an elite one?
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:22 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
Can we maybe infer that Asik was a bit overrated defensively due to Thibs' system, and that while he is a good defender, he is not an elite one?
I agree, he falls short of the mark on his own, but he seemed to fit Thibs' system quite well. If Thibs isn't the coach I'm totally prepared to go another direction at center.
Posted on 5/14/15 at 4:23 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
You post a list of rim protection to show people are better than Asik, then say you don't care if it shows that Asik is better than Davis. That is dumb, dog.
I take it you watch a lot of Pelicans basketball.
I do.
You're telling me Asik does more to protect the rim than AD does?
AD is the definition of a rim protector. he just doesn't get to play that role often.
Every teams goal is to get AD away from the rim so they can attack Asik unathletic's arse.
If AD played the 5 and was always under the basket like Asik, his numbers would look better, but we don't want him there b/c some people think you're more likely to get hurt playing the 5 instead of the 4.
No one game plans for Asik's rim protection.
Opposing teams game plan to prevent AD from even attempting to be a rim protector.
Asik is our rim protector b/c we ask AD not to be. Doesn't mean Asik is a better rim protector.
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