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Pelicans Defense
Posted on 10/6/16 at 11:13 am
Posted on 10/6/16 at 11:13 am
This is a question I have been wondering about. I know it's too early to tell this season with the talent we now have compared to last season but in the limited play I've seen I still see some of the same defensive issues (open back door lanes, scoring in the paint, periods of poor communication).
I wonder is the defensive issues due a talent shortage or is it scheme? By scheme, on the offensive end. I understand we want play with near league leading pace and space the floor, but is that causing our players to rush and get out of position and thus allowing open lanes to the basket? Or, is it the other side of the coin where are players don't fully grasp the concepts to accommodate the system?
I mean Erman did great work in Golden State and Boston. The argument has always been if he created those defensive schemes and made them league leading. Are/were their players just that much smarter or were their offenses better suited to help create quality defense?
I wonder is the defensive issues due a talent shortage or is it scheme? By scheme, on the offensive end. I understand we want play with near league leading pace and space the floor, but is that causing our players to rush and get out of position and thus allowing open lanes to the basket? Or, is it the other side of the coin where are players don't fully grasp the concepts to accommodate the system?
I mean Erman did great work in Golden State and Boston. The argument has always been if he created those defensive schemes and made them league leading. Are/were their players just that much smarter or were their offenses better suited to help create quality defense?
2
Posted on 10/6/16 at 12:27 pm to BallHawk
Our defense is below average at PG and C. Two posistions that anchor the defense. Thats about all I got.
Posted on 10/6/16 at 12:36 pm to BallHawk
Whatever this team's ceiling is on the defensive side of the ball, it will probably take a little while for us to get there considering all the new players. I'm definitely more optimistic about it than last year though.
Posted on 10/6/16 at 12:44 pm to Hazelnut
quote:
it will probably take a little while for us to get there considering all the new players.
Not just adjusting to new players, but Holiday and QPon coming back should make a big difference as well. On top of that Terrence Jones is averaging 27 MPG, which is fine for a new player in preseason, but when the regular season comes he should give up about 8-10 of those minutes to AD and Asik which would lead to better defense.
This post was edited on 10/6/16 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 10/6/16 at 1:07 pm to TigerinATL
I get all of that and it makes sense.
Even when AD was in the game I still saw a lot of plays where opponents were getting in the paint. Even against the D-League squad of the Mavs 102 was scored.
My question really is what kind of swing do you see in PPG when AD is playing 30-35 a night with these supporting parts compared to when he's play 10-15 a night? I am curious to see what this team's ceiling is defensively.
I, too, subscribe to McNamara's there on projections. It's too early to say but I still question that it's scheme that hinders our D.
Even when AD was in the game I still saw a lot of plays where opponents were getting in the paint. Even against the D-League squad of the Mavs 102 was scored.
My question really is what kind of swing do you see in PPG when AD is playing 30-35 a night with these supporting parts compared to when he's play 10-15 a night? I am curious to see what this team's ceiling is defensively.
I, too, subscribe to McNamara's there on projections. It's too early to say but I still question that it's scheme that hinders our D.
Posted on 10/6/16 at 1:58 pm to BallHawk
I can also blame the bad scoring defense on the fact that everyone lolly gags on defense in preseason. Me and a buddy were noticing that we would go 90% on offense and 50% on defense.
Posted on 10/6/16 at 3:48 pm to BallHawk
Defense is all about communication. Average players with great communication will have a better defense than great individual defenders with poor communication
The bodies they have are good enough. Will they communicate and trust each other? If the answer is yes, they can be a top 10 defense by the end of the season. No, and they will be terrible again
The bodies they have are good enough. Will they communicate and trust each other? If the answer is yes, they can be a top 10 defense by the end of the season. No, and they will be terrible again
Posted on 10/6/16 at 3:51 pm to Crewz
Jrue coming back should make a difference on Defense.
A lineup of Jrue/Moore/Hill/AD/Asik SHOULD be ridiculously good on Defense (although that lineup would be offensively challenged).
If that lineup was poor defensively, then something is really wrong.
A lineup of Jrue/Moore/Hill/AD/Asik SHOULD be ridiculously good on Defense (although that lineup would be offensively challenged).
If that lineup was poor defensively, then something is really wrong.
Posted on 10/6/16 at 4:33 pm to Fun Bunch
A great defense is far more than the sum of its parts. Its five guys playing on a string. This isn't the isolation NBA anymore where you play your man one-on-one and you succeed by having great individual defenders. It's about communication, IQ, and trust. The Spurs have taken suboptimal defenders like Parker, Mills, Aldridge, etc and had elite defenses because of those things.
We can't just look at the names on paper. It won't be about that. It will be about those things listed above. And its tough to project whether they will happen or not. The coaches will tell them to do it. The players will want to do it. But sometimes, that just isn't enough. We shall see.
We can't just look at the names on paper. It won't be about that. It will be about those things listed above. And its tough to project whether they will happen or not. The coaches will tell them to do it. The players will want to do it. But sometimes, that just isn't enough. We shall see.
Posted on 10/6/16 at 4:49 pm to Crewz
Perhaps I am getting ahead of myself, but it was a question that I had last season but never raised.
On paper, we should have excellent defenders, but it only works if each part plays its role to the benefit of the whole. I agree that the guys we have are team oriented and want to make it work, but wanting and doing are two totally different things.
On paper, we should have excellent defenders, but it only works if each part plays its role to the benefit of the whole. I agree that the guys we have are team oriented and want to make it work, but wanting and doing are two totally different things.
Posted on 10/6/16 at 5:21 pm to BallHawk
Trust is a key component but its an odd thing. You don't have it until you are playing good on D and you dont have good D until you have trust
So, when you get off to a 1-11 start, everyone is frustrated and trying to do too much. They don't trust each other and then its so hard to get back. Especially when the pieces keep changing every day.
So, when you get off to a 1-11 start, everyone is frustrated and trying to do too much. They don't trust each other and then its so hard to get back. Especially when the pieces keep changing every day.
Posted on 10/7/16 at 8:18 am to Crewz
quote:
We can't just look at the names on paper. It won't be about that.
When I see those names on those papers, I see at least a few guys that I know are good defenders and emphasize communication. Hence the excitement. Will they all come together? You're right, that's still up in the air. But with the type of players we have, it's much more likely they will play as a team than in the past.
This post was edited on 10/7/16 at 8:20 am
Posted on 10/7/16 at 9:30 am to Hazelnut
They talked about it last year. Remember Dante saying they were going to be a top three defense?
I think getting off to at least a decent start will be the key. Do that and guys will continue to buy in and it will gain steam as Jrue and QPon return
Start 1-11 or something like that again, and I think we see a repeat of last year, no matter how much the guys want to do the right thing
I think getting off to at least a decent start will be the key. Do that and guys will continue to buy in and it will gain steam as Jrue and QPon return
Start 1-11 or something like that again, and I think we see a repeat of last year, no matter how much the guys want to do the right thing
Posted on 10/7/16 at 9:37 am to Crewz
McNamara talking about communication, I will say this, it's evident that they're going to talk a lot more defensively with the new guys given what I've seen so far in the open practice and first preseason game.
Posted on 10/7/16 at 10:04 am to CP3forMVP
Again, it looks that way now. Just like it looked that way this time last season. Remember all the positive stories about our defense this time last year. Same shite.
Then, you start terrible and everybody starts doing Their own thing and it's impossible to get it back. The first six weeks of this season are so huge. Yes, it's very possible to see a scenario where they buy in, communicate, and it just grows as the season goes on. Also, very easy to see a scenario where they are losing a ton, start getting frustrated and communication becomes blaming, yelling, cursing out each other, etc
Winning cures all and losing destroys all. They need to win some games for the buy in to be continued to be had by all
Then, you start terrible and everybody starts doing Their own thing and it's impossible to get it back. The first six weeks of this season are so huge. Yes, it's very possible to see a scenario where they buy in, communicate, and it just grows as the season goes on. Also, very easy to see a scenario where they are losing a ton, start getting frustrated and communication becomes blaming, yelling, cursing out each other, etc
Winning cures all and losing destroys all. They need to win some games for the buy in to be continued to be had by all
Posted on 10/7/16 at 11:14 am to Crewz
verrier:
quote:
When it comes to defense, every player agrees on the first step:
“Communication,” said Hill, who played on two top-10 defenses with the Indiana Pacers, including 2013-14’s top-ranked unit.
“Defense is about communication and trust,” said Moore, a reserve on the Boston Celtics’ second-ranked defense in 2011-12.
“Communication,” said Lance Stephenson, also a former Pacer. “To be a good defensive team, you’ve got to talk.”
Posted on 10/7/16 at 11:18 am to cgrand
Yep. They all believe it and want to do it. But losing creates selfishness, back biting, etc. it's a downward spiral that the Pels need to avoid
Posted on 10/7/16 at 11:32 am to Crewz
quote:
Pelicans Defense
A great defense is far more than the sum of its parts. Its five guys playing on a string. This isn't the isolation NBA anymore where you play your man one-on-one and you succeed by having great individual defenders. It's about communication, IQ, and trust. The Spurs have taken suboptimal defenders like Parker, Mills, Aldridge, etc and had elite defenses because of those things.
We can't just look at the names on paper. It won't be about that. It will be about those things listed above. And its tough to project whether they will happen or not. The coaches will tell them to do it. The players will want to do it. But sometimes, that just isn't enough. We shall see.
Yes, I know that.
My point was with individual defenders that are that good, if our team defense is bad something is seriously amiss.
Posted on 10/7/16 at 11:40 am to Fun Bunch
I would say it's amiss if if there isn't improvement by the end of the season. Example, I would be fine with a 23rd ranked defense if it was top 12 after the all star break. Even with buy in, communication, etc it will still take a little time
This post was edited on 10/7/16 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 10/7/16 at 11:59 am to Crewz
Agree
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