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Message
re: Jimmy Smith and Pelicans writers for Nola.com
Posted on 5/24/14 at 1:59 pm to Fearthehat0307
Posted on 5/24/14 at 1:59 pm to Fearthehat0307
quote:
jmmy smith in the comments section
quote:
Please remember in this discussion, folks, that Noel was the player the Sixers wanted, therefore he was selected by the Pelicans. It's unlikely New Orleans would have chosen Noel. With a great need for a small forward, there was a player such as Giannis Antetokounmpo who went 15th to the Bucks or center Mason Plumlee who went 22nd to Brooklyn, either of whom could have piqued the Pelicans' interest. Noel was not the Pelicans' pick.
I love hindsight. does he really think we would've taken one of those two with the 6th pick? he dumb
I think they were gonna take Burke if the trade hadn't happened. Seemed like everything we heard leading into the draft pointed to that
1
Posted on 5/24/14 at 7:18 pm to Alabama Slim
quote:
with the uncertainty of projecting NBA draft players, I would gladly give up a #10 pick for a solid pg like Holiday.
You also get the $10m per with it
Posted on 5/24/14 at 8:12 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
You also get the $10m per with it
You don't he's worth 10 per?
That's the going rate these days
Posted on 5/24/14 at 10:28 pm to LosLobos111
quote:I think his comment was that you spend $10 million per year (actually $11 million per year) AND two top 10 picks.
You don't he's worth 10 per? That's the going rate these days
Posted on 5/24/14 at 10:30 pm to tiger band trumpet
quote:I would think it would have been Burke or MCW. However, no one expected Noel to be there, so they may have determined the value was worth the pick. Who knows? Jimmy Smith is so clueless about the team and the NBA as a whole.
I think they were gonna take Burke if the trade hadn't happened. Seemed like everything we heard leading into the draft pointed to that
Posted on 5/25/14 at 2:59 am to NOSHAU
Sadly that's the case with a lot of our beat writers(saints included)
Posted on 5/25/14 at 4:56 am to NOSHAU
quote:
I would think it would have been Burke or MCW. However, no one expected Noel to be there, so they may have determined the value was worth the pick. Who knows? Jimmy Smith is so clueless about the team and the NBA as a whole.
I thought the pick was going to be Mclemore. I couldn't believe that he fell (Noel and Mclemore were switching back and forth as projected #1s). But I thought Rivers was the PG of the future and would caddy behind Vasquez one more year. Mclemore would do the same behind Gordon. The backcourt of the future would be set. We'd be a lottery team, then draft a SF or C in a really great draft. But it didn't work out that way..
Posted on 5/25/14 at 9:56 am to LosLobos111
quote:
You don't he's worth 10 per?
That's the going rate these days
He's "worth it"
But you cannot just say you traded Noel and the 10th pick for Holiday. We could have had Noel and the #10 (which is probably cloiser to #3 had we not engaged "win now" mode) pick under control for a few years on rookie deals. Could've saved $10m and just let Evans run the offense, which is basically what ended up happening anyway.
We will have to wait 3 years to see how this deal plays out. People think the 10th pick isn't worth anything. Maybe because we drafted Austin Rivers there, idk.
Posted on 5/25/14 at 11:27 am to GynoSandberg
quote:
We could have had Noel and the #10 (which is probably cloiser to #3 had we not engaged "win now" mode)
Not you too Gyno. Last year's team had 27 wins, don't go into win now mode, all the other teams in the East are both sucking and tanking. You add nothing to last year's team (meaning you keep Vasquez and Lopez) but a more productive Gordon playing 22 more games, a more productive AD and a DeMarre Carrol type at SF. Or if you want trade Vasquez and Lopez for Tyreke, Stiemsma, Ajinca, Babbit and Withey. You really think that team with those additions doesn't at least match the previous season's 27 win total (tied for 7th this season), or add 3 more to it (#10 spot where we landed ,30 wins was as good as 34 wins for that spot). To act like this years team would be worse than last year's team when it has clearly improved while other teams were tanking or declining(East) seems like an epidemic of wishful thinking by people that want a reason to not like the Holiday trade.
quote:
People think the 10th pick isn't worth anything. Maybe because we drafted Austin Rivers there, idk.
No one's saying it's not valuable, but 1 B player is generally considered more essential to have than 2 C players. Holiday is a 2way player which is pretty valuable, no one you get at 6 or 10 would be a 2 way player.
This post was edited on 5/25/14 at 11:29 am
Posted on 5/25/14 at 12:42 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
but 1 B player is generally considered more essential to have than 2 C players. Holiday is a 2way player which is pretty valuable, no one you get at 6 or 10 would be a 2 way player.
It's not about Noel or that they need to keep the pick this summer. What vet could the 1st get? How about Anderson+1st? Or Gordon+1st? Isn't it possible that vet might be just as good as, if not better than, Holiday?
They could have a young and likely to improve C player for 3 years at a great price and a B player. Plus they would have room to get a decent wing or fill in whatever gaps they have
Posted on 5/25/14 at 1:26 pm to corndeaux
quote:
What vet could the 1st get?
If you're arguing that #6-10 in this years draft could get a player better than Holiday I'd say no. On reasonable get is one you've mentioned before, Asik, but he's a one way player that plays 25 MPG for this team, not better than what Holiday gives the team. If you're arguing Noel + pick maybe it could land you Rondo, which would be similar value to Holiday except for the fact that you'd be trading 2 picks for a 1 year rental.
Was trading for Holiday the absolute best possible return on those 2 picks? We'll never know. Was he a reasonable return on the picks? Yes. I do wonder if we'd even be having these conversations if Holiday and Ryno don't get injured and we end the season with a win total in the mid 40s and look one piece away from the playoffs.
Posted on 5/25/14 at 10:14 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Asik, but he's a one way player that plays 25 MPG for this team, not better than what Holiday gives the team
Absolutely disagree. Asik, a premier defensive anchor, gives them the best 3 man big rotation in the league. That is much more valuable than Holiday's skill set on a team with Gordon and Evans.
quote:
Noel
Why so limited? No evidence they pick Noel if left to their own devices
A McLemore/Anderson/2014 first package might get them in the door for Love, an A player and worth the rental risk if I'm Demps. Just the 2014 pick with Gordon might be enough of a sweetener for a non albatross in return
quote:
I do wonder if we'd even be having these conversations if Holiday and Ryno don't get injured and we end the season with a win total in the mid 40s and look one piece away from the playoffs.
These questions were there last June. People have defended Demps with the nebulous "asset gathering" idea. That has merit, but it can't ignore the fact that, so far, either by design or bad luck, he has hardly any desirable assets to deploy to make that one piece move if this core does get to that place
The guys (and I was decidedly not one of them) that worried about flexibility with the summer moves have been proven to be right up to this point. If anything Demps might have undervalued what a first can get him and how much the CBA has spooked teams.
It doesn't mean his moves can't work out; still plenty of time. But it also doesn't preclude him from tough questions about what exactly he's built and how he did it
This post was edited on 5/25/14 at 10:19 pm
Posted on 5/26/14 at 9:35 am to corndeaux
quote:
Why so limited? No evidence they pick Noel if left to their own devices
Because there are so many variations. Playing what if, especially colored by hindsight, is a very fuzzy game. Plus Noel was not falling past 6, at the very least they pick him and trade back. The popular choices are MCW and Burke and I honestly don't/didn't want either. He had a forgettable first year mired in that mess in Detroit, but I really liked KCP in that part of this draft.
Because what if gets so fuzzy you really need to offer specifics when saying one course is better than the other. For instance, even though PG is deep, all $8+ million PGs aren't interchangable. I don't think anyone wants Brandon Jennings, and if you don't land Jeff Teague instead who are you left with? If you trade #6 for your chosen PG, say you convince Phoenix to give you Dragic since they already have Bledsoe, and then you trade #10 for Asik, are you really in a very different place than if you trade both for Holiday and pick up Asik as a FA in 2015?
Really the only way to pave a better path is to sign Teague, who isn't a good shooter making him a bad pairing with Tyreke. So if signing Tyreke is a given who do you pair with him? Trey Burke only shot 33% from 3, MCW 26%. You almost have to trade for someone like Dragic, and if you trade for a PG in Holiday's tier, 1) is #6 alone enough to get it done, and 2) are you really in a very different place?
quote:
it also doesn't preclude him from tough questions about what exactly he's built and how he did it
Tough questions should be asked, but most of the people complaining about Holiday aren't asking tough questions, they tell you why they feel it's a bad move and give vague, "just because" answers like they know without Holiday and the 34 games he played this season that the team would have kept their pick. You are asking legit questions, while the rest are saying Noel + Wiggins > Holiday, or they use the fact that PG is deep right now to pretend like Holiday isn't very good. Average at a deep position does not mean you aren't good.
This post was edited on 5/26/14 at 9:50 am
Posted on 5/26/14 at 10:04 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Plus Noel was not falling past 6
Noel wasn't falling TO 6, either, so that's just another assumption.
The issue is that he gave up Noel AND this year's pick get Holiday on a somewhat expensive deal. I was totally fine with shipping out Noel. This year's pick seems to be more valuable than Dell treated it. The guy is not beyond criticism.
The deal got sketchier when Demps dealt for Evans and created a bunch of duplication. People keep justifying his borderline trades by saying they are part of some greater plan. While the Holiday trade may have been solid in a vacuum, it got a bit confounding with the other moves. I guess we'll keep waiting for the big payoff move that will make it all make sense.
Hell, even the supposed Lakers-Houston deal for CP3 had people on here strongly defending it by saying that Dell had a deal already in place to move Odom. I just don't buy it. Stern saved our asses, even if the final trade wasn't great, either.
ETA - I'm not ready to fire the guy or anything, but he needs to put together a coherent roster at some point (and one that works with the coach's system, too). The coach should adapt some, but so should the GM. This board is so obsessed with their lines in the sand, though.
This post was edited on 5/26/14 at 10:08 am
Posted on 5/26/14 at 10:51 am to Galactic Inquisitor
Anyone read Jimmy Smiths piece today in the the times picayune?
He is talking about the Jrue trade
"The Pelicans had mortgaged their immediate future a year ago when the team overpaid for point guard Jrue Holiday, foolishly adding a second No. 1 pick..."
-he bashes the trade saying we gave up too much and overpaid for a solid young PG
-then says we need to get rid of EG
From just reading this, he seems like a miserable person...so much negativity and butt hurt-ness
He is talking about the Jrue trade
"The Pelicans had mortgaged their immediate future a year ago when the team overpaid for point guard Jrue Holiday, foolishly adding a second No. 1 pick..."
-he bashes the trade saying we gave up too much and overpaid for a solid young PG
-then says we need to get rid of EG
From just reading this, he seems like a miserable person...so much negativity and butt hurt-ness
Posted on 5/26/14 at 11:07 am to DeionDeion
quote:
"The Pelicans had mortgaged their immediate future a year ago when the team overpaid for point guard Jrue Holiday, foolishly adding a second No. 1 pick..."
A legitimate possibility. A lot of national NBA writers argued that at the time (Bill Simmons is still a clown). The jury is still out.
quote:
-then says we need to get rid of EG
Seems to be consensus on this board.
quote:
From just reading this, he seems like a miserable person...so much negativity and butt hurt-ness
I haven't read it, but I think people are getting ridiculous with the criticism of him. His opinions will not always mirror our own.
Posted on 5/26/14 at 11:21 am to Galactic Inquisitor
From the article Jimmy Smith evokes a gloom and doom future for the Pels
-I don't agree with his thoughts on Jrue
-EG we need to get rid of so I agree there
Obviously I know not everyone will share my opinion but go read the article...he seems like a glass half empty kind of guy and I don't think we are in THAT bad of a position
-I don't agree with his thoughts on Jrue
-EG we need to get rid of so I agree there
Obviously I know not everyone will share my opinion but go read the article...he seems like a glass half empty kind of guy and I don't think we are in THAT bad of a position
Posted on 5/26/14 at 11:28 am to Galactic Inquisitor
I think the merits of the Holiday deal are debatable, but like I said, most people questioning haven't brought much to the debate. It's also hard to judge because we don't know the timeline assumptions Demps was working under. If 2015 is the deadline it's entirely possible you end up with very similar pieces whether you trade 2 picks for Holiday or one pick for a similar PG. The real test of Demps isn't going to be the Holiday trade, it's going to be how he handles Gordon and hopefully the cap space left when Gordon's gone.
Posted on 5/26/14 at 3:21 pm to TigerinATL
Is that james duckie smith?
shite, the best pels/hornets info ive gotten has always come from you and THRILLHO. Keep on keepin on brother.
Never forget "james posey...should we?"
shite, the best pels/hornets info ive gotten has always come from you and THRILLHO. Keep on keepin on brother.
Never forget "james posey...should we?"
Posted on 5/26/14 at 5:07 pm to TigerinATL
My issue doesn't lie with Holiday as a player. I appreciate his two way skills.
The issue lies with the price tag and the subsequent direction the organization went in.
I know it's stupid to speculate that this year's pick would be higher. But even at 10, you can still, at the least, get a contributor.
I admittedly have skepticism in our current state. I was all for the quick contender, but I do not think this roster will get it done. This unfairly leads me to question the moves and wish we would've just slowly rebuilt through the draft and spending money more wisely
The issue lies with the price tag and the subsequent direction the organization went in.
I know it's stupid to speculate that this year's pick would be higher. But even at 10, you can still, at the least, get a contributor.
I admittedly have skepticism in our current state. I was all for the quick contender, but I do not think this roster will get it done. This unfairly leads me to question the moves and wish we would've just slowly rebuilt through the draft and spending money more wisely
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