Does anyone know much about the training staff?

Aren't they the same people the Saints use?

Yes, the same staff is used for both teams.

And Asik's stomach bug probably came from his bad eating habits. If you want the training staff micromanaging the players you need to give them the authority to do so. When Gentry was in Phoenix trainers could fine players.

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1. The current training staff was not there during the Gordon's knee stuff.

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The doctors were, they were Corporate Sponsors back then too.

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2. There are a ton of variables that affect injury and recovery and unless you have access to the players' personal medical records you are talking out of your arse.

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I assume you being in med school is why you got defensive at what you perceived as an attack on your future profession, but I only blamed one incident on team doctors, 2 incidents I blamed on going against doctors orders, and the rest on normal basketball wear and tear. I am not talking out of my arse, these 3 specific incidents I detailed have been publicly documented facts.

Gordon was unsuccessfully treated for about 2 years by team doctors, including a recommendation for an extreme treatment, microfracture surgery, that apparently wasn't needed because after about 2 years he saw a specialist in Chicago that told him all he needed was some specific physical therapy, and a few months later his knee was good and he hasn't had problems with it since. The same thing happened to Jared Dudley, the Clippers failed to successfully treat his knee injury for a year, he goes to Milwaukee and several weeks of the right physical therapy later and he's right as rain. How can you come to any conclusion other than the team doctors failed when other doctors healed them so quickly?

We learned this year that Jrue Holiday was supposed to be on a minutes restriction last year, that's a fact from Jrue Holiday himself, not my arse.

It has been reported that Quincy Pondexter avoided getting an MRI to the point of being fined because he knew they'd make him sit if he was diagnosed. Publicly reported fact, not a made up theory by me.

I think you need to reread my post that you knee jerked to and realize that the OP is who you need to enlighten on why you can't necessarily jump to the conclusion that bad results = bad process.

I don't like the potential conflict of interest that comes with the corporate sponsorship, but outside of that I think the training/medical staff needs to be supplemented with new tools and technology and possibly empowered, not fired because players can't stay healthy.

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Were the doctors in Chicago that Gordon got second opinions from also corporate sponsors?

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No, an outside specialist. I can't find the articles now, but IIRC he went out and found this doctor on his own. The recommendation of microfracture surgery in a contract year when Boss Stern owned the team reportedly made him less than trusting of team doctors.

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4. Medicine is not a science it is an art that involves alot of sciences. Fixing a knee is not like replacing a joint in a machine. There are a ton of variables to go along with it. There is also trial and error and in the case of Dudley, the Bucks' training staff had the records of what the Clippers tried. Do you think they would then retry what didn't work or try something else? So saying the Clippers doctors and training staff failed, but the Bucks succeeded is bs.

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I see where you're coming from, but the problem with this logic is that if you had to go through options A, B, C and D before you finally get to option E that works, then the Hornicans doctors certainly had enough time to arrive at option E, they just didn't. I don't see how the Gordon situation can be defended, the doctors may not have done the wrong things, but they obviously didn't know how to do the right thing and they certainly had the time to do so. How is that not a medical staff failure?

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5. I am not defensive, I am just calling you out on your bs.

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It's not BS, I've stated why I came to the conclusions I came to, if you disagree then the post you just made should be the response and is appreciated, not saying I'm just making stuff up.

The answer to the OP's question is : NO

None of us know them, their techniques, our players medical charts, Benson's budget, etc. There are dozens of variables we have no access to, so no informed conclusion can ever be made. Just the usual rampant fan speculation.

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No, an outside specialist. I can't find the articles now, but IIRC he went out and found this doctor on his own. The recommendation of microfracture surgery in a contract year when Boss Stern owned the team reportedly made him less than trusting of team doctors.

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Found the article The microfracture story came from an unnamed source and the source's retelling of it does not make any medical sense.

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“This has been a mystery from the beginning,” the source said. “When he injured it (at Phoenix), he came back and he was checked out. (Hornets) doctors looked at him, and they got an opinion and (one of the doctors said), it wasn’t just a small tear in the meniscus, ‘I think he needs microfracture surgery.’ Just the word microfracture freaked Eric out.”

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Having personally dealed with issues like what Gordon has dealt with and having some medical knowledge I would be willing to bet that is not how it went down. I am willing to bet that Gordon didn't trust a new team's doctors in a contract year and the word microfracture was mentioned as a possible solution and Gordon freaked out and focussed on the word microfracture. No doctor in his right mind would recommend microfracture before doing PT and other less invassive or drastic measures. That just screams lawsuit. Also if it did occur exactly the way the unnamed source that doctor would probably not be the team doctor anymore. If the doctor was advising microfracture to Gordon because Stern and the Hornets wanted to lower his value that doctor probably wouldn't have an MD anymore. So I am going to file that retelling of the story under more than likely bs. Also just because it says Gordon sought out additional doctors does not mean he did with or without the medical teams help. You are reading too much into the journalists interpretation of an unnamed sources version of the events.

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I see where you're coming from, but the problem with this logic is that if you had to go through options A, B, C and D before you finally get to option E that works, then the Hornicans doctors certainly had enough time to arrive at option E, they just didn't.

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Wrong again.

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Each of the above surgical modalities has a potential role in the treatment of focal arthritis, and studies have shown that there are optimal indications for each. In some cases, the procedures should be combined (e.g. an osteotomy to re-align the limb and an OATs procedure to restore a normal cartilage surface).

For many persons, a conservative approach with physical therapy (strengthening and stretching), Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Medications (NSAIDs), loss of excess weight, and occasionally orthotics may lessen the symptoms of cartilage lesions to a great degree. When these modalities have been tried in earnest and fail to provide relief, surgical cartilage restorative procedures can be considered.

The nature of the injury to the cartilage will usually dictate which option is best to treat the problem. In most cases, X-rays, Magnetic Resonance Imaging Studies (MRI) and occasionally arthroscopy may be required to evaluate the injury to determine the best treatment. Based on the findings, the experienced surgeon can choose from an armamentarium of procedures to address the injured cartilage tissue and correct any limb alignment problems that may be contributing to the injury.

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LINK

So you evaluate the inury and if the injury allows and the patient agrees (the patient is the boss) you typically start with the most conservative option first (option A) and then if option A doesn't work, move on to more invasive options (options B,C,D, &E) or combine them.

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don't see how the Gordon situation can be defended, the doctors may not have done the wrong things, but they obviously didn't know how to do the right thing and they certainly had the time to do so. How is that not a medical staff failure?

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I am not defending the medical staff. In order to do that I would have to have Gordon's medical records to know exactly what they saw and what they recommended. I would also have to know what he was diagnosed with, which is something that has never been confirmed. It has been speculated that it was anything from simple idiopathic knee pain caused by pelvic misalignment to degenerative arthritis. I am calling you out on your bs because you are taking unconfirmed info from unnamed sources, applying your obvious medical ignorance, and jumping to conclussions and that is called talking out of your arse.

I appreciate the medical facts you've brought to this thread, all we've had to go on for years are news reports from sources and drawing conclusions from general medical articles about the conditions they give an official diagnosis of. But I still don't understand one thing

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So you evaluate the inury and if the injury allows and the patient agrees (the patient is the boss) you typically start with the most conservative option first (option A) and then if option A doesn't work, move on to more invasive options (options B,C,D, &E) or combine them.

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Why did Eric Gordon have to get a 2nd opinion to find the right treatment after the team basically came out and said he was faking?

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"I've checked with Doc," Williams said, "but for him to explain to me what's going on with his body and then have Eric feel a certain way doesn't matter. You know what I'm saying? If Doc says one thing and the guy is feeling another, then you have to . . . what am I supposed to say?

"I'm sure it's got to be medical. A guy just can't not play. It's got to be medical. At this point of the year, everybody is excited to play. I'm sure it's medical."

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LINK

Now this is through the filter of Monty, but Monty basically said that Gordon saying he was hurt contradicted the medical explanation the doctors gave him. Then a month later Gordon went to a doctor in Chicago (on his own IIRC but I can't find a confirming article) and got a different treatment recommendation and was healed.

Yes I'm trying to piece a medical mystery together with press clippings, but the information we have on this case doesn't seem so lacking that we can't come to the conclusion that the Chicago doctor was the right doctor for Gordon to see. My problem isn't that they needed a Chicago specialist, but they didn't send him to the specialist sooner, and that they possibly didn't send him to the specialist at all if my memory is correct. This Chicago doctor report came out of nowhere and he never to this day was named which I always thought was odd.

We got a new S&C coach this year (promotion from within). He did instagram several pictures of players working out this summer so progressive?

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Now this is through the filter of Monty, but Monty basically said that Gordon saying he was hurt contradicted the medical explanation the doctors gave him. Then a month later Gordon went to a doctor in Chicago (on his own IIRC but I can't find a confirming article) and got a different treatment recommendation and was healed.

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1. Are you that ignorant on how sports medicine works? Second opinions are extremely common.

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If you’re injured and receive a diagnosis from a medical professional your next step should be to seek a second opinion. Professional athletes do it all the time because an injury can sideline them for the season or potentially ruin a career.

Recently New York Yankees Carlos Beltran received a second opinion for a right elbow injury. Pain in the left elbow sent Nationals minor league left hander Matt Purke for a second opinion. For pitchers with elbow injuries, a second opinion often serves as a precursor to ligament replacement surgery.

Baseball players aren’t the only athletes lining up for second opinions. Dallas Cowboys linebacker Sean Lee got one for a torn ACL. It looks like his injury will keep him on the bench through the 2014 season.

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LINK
There is also a contractual reason to get a second opinion.

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The only circumstance under which a player can refuse to compete—in just about any professional league—is if he's injured. Normally, it's up to the team doctor to decide whether an athlete is fit to play. If the player disagrees—or gets a second opinion from an outside doctor—he can file a grievance through the players union, which then negotiates a solution with the team.

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LINK
So getting a second opinion protects Gordon from missing paychecks.

2. From my earlier research the Hornets doctors said there was no structual issue showing up on an MRI (i.e. meniscus tear, swelling, torn ligament, etc) that is causing pain. That does not mean that he was faking it. There is such a thing called knee pain of unknown origin or idiopathic knee pain after a bone bruise, which was the initial injury Gordon suffered in Phoenix in dec 2011. LINK Some think it may be due to misalignment of the patella creating pressure points in the femoral groove. LINK. Monty just didn't know how to describe it and butchered the description.
3. He might have gone through outside doctors but he did not find them on his own. The team and the medical staff had to help.The team has the sole descretion to what doctors a player can see.

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Each Team has the sole and exclusive discretion to select any doctors,hospitals, clinics, health consultants, or other health care providers(“Health Care Providers”) to examine and/or treat players pursuant to theterms of this Agreement and the Uniform Player Contract; provided,however, no Team will engage any such Health Care Provider basedprimarily on a sponsorship relationship (or lack thereof) with the Team,and without considering the Health Care Provider’s qualifications(including,
e.g.
, medical experience and credentials) and the goal of providing high quality care to all of its players.

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Its on page 281
The UPC (same link but pages 19-24) describes the treatment injury protections and since the initial injury was before the max contract was signed or even agreed to and the Hornets under Stern low balled Gordon. I can understand why he would choose outside doctors, even if that speculation may or may not have been unwarranted.

Jester you ask why the other doc that saw him in the offseason was successful. It was because it was idiopathic knee pain or anterior knee pain it takes a minimun of 1 year rest and rehab and NSAIDs to treat that.

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Treatment
Nonoperative
rest, rehab, and NSAIDS
indications
mainstay of treatment and should be done for a minimum of one year
technique
NSAIDS are more effective than steroids
activity modification
rehabilitation with emphasis on
vastus medialis obiquus strengthening
core strengthening
closed chain short arc quadriceps exercises

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Now I don't know what the diagnosis was or have any inside info to what his chart says, but the timeline does fit. If that was the diagnosis then the noninvasive method is tried for over a year because the surgery to fix that is rough to say the least and takes a minimum of 6 months before you can even return to sports related activity. LINK.

Gordon initially injured the knee in december of 2011 and finally made the call to go LA for rehab in december of 2012. Why did he go to LA maybe because rehab is the same as the second opinion policy. If players rehab outside of the team's facility the team can't fine or cut them. Plus he was in LA for 3 years and had been in NOLA for less than a year when he first went out there for rehab.