re: Defending the Holiday Trade

Exactly. What bothers me about the trade is that giving up those 2 firsts did not seem necessary, regardless of the quality of player each of those picks turns out to be.

A lot of the defense of the trade tends to be some version of "Holiday's impact will (probably) be greater than the impact of what we gave up." Which is understandable, but won't be conclusive for years. But did we NEED to give up that much perceived value for a player of Holiday's caliber? (And when I say "perceived value" I am referring to how first round picks currently are valued so highly for most teams, as Zach Lowe has mentioned a few times.)

Basically, with the current value of draft picks, could we not have gotten Jrue for one first (either the Noel year or a future year)? What if we'd waited a few months and realized they'd be in full tank mode for the year? They'd be looking to move him (and not holding out for 2 firsts), right?

I could be off on this, but the trade still rubs me the wrong way, just because it seems we could have had him for less.

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just because it seems we could have had him for less.

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But how in the hell can we, sitting on the outside, really know this? Could you, I or anyone else have beaten Philly down for a better deal? I don't think Dell is a pushover when it comes to negotiation. To the contrary. The mandate was to improve the team . . . now. And, it's well known that the Pelicans always liked Holiday.

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If we had given up 3 firsts, would it then be ok to question if we gave up too much?

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Sure.

By the way, I still quarrel with the argument that we "gave up" two firsts. I think it's more accurate to say our 2103 pick was, in fact, "used" on Holiday. And a very good, proven vet at PG, who plays offense and defense, is worth more, imo, than an unproven, speculative pick. Now, the legitimate question is was he worth throwing in the protected 2014 pick. Reasonable minds can disagree, but I think, given the team's circumstances and goals at the time, it was a solid decision. How will it work out over the coming years? None of us knows for sure.

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I really doubt dell said, "I know y'all would give him up for our 1st and next year's 2nd but just take 2 1st round picks instead for good measure"

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Yeah, me too, straw man.

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if you think we could've got him for less then what happened? dell too quick to pull the trigger and just sucks at negotiating?

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Philly wasn't sure they were ready to tank and Demps pushed them that direction with 2 picks? I think most of the complaints in this thread are valid, but for the past year most of the arguments have revolved around an injured Holiday vs. an imagined healthy and productive Noel plus Wiggins.

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claiming that we could have had jrue for less is just flat out calling dell incompetent and a bad negotiator. 

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That's a bit extreme IMO. Even the great GMs can get the worse end of a trade or make a bad move. Doesn't mean we need to label them as incompetent or bad, unless it is a franchise crippling move.

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There's no way of knowing, it's all just armchair speculation, although speculation based on recent league trends and the Sixers' tanking desires.

And I agree that Dell is not a pushover in negotiations. But that doesn't mean we can't question the (perceived/potential) value given up in his move. If we had given up 3 firsts, would it then be ok to question if we gave up too much?

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See, it is my belief that a 2nd tier caliber PG that proved that he can improve and he was <24 years of age doesn't come often.

I'm sure there were other teams willing to fork over a 1st round to get a PG, but we made the better offer by adding in the protected 2014 one. Cleveland didn't need a PG, Orlando somewhat needed one, Washington didn't need one, Charlotte didn't need one, Phoenix somewhat didn't need one, we needed one, and Sacramento needed one.

Look at sacramento, so if they had picked Noel (assuming philly called them beforehand and we skipped), I'm sure they would have had Philly calling to ask for a trade. Now the catch is, who was willing to seal the deal with another 1st round kicker, and I'm guessing between the teams available that could get one of the 3 philly wanted, we were the one willing to give a protected 1st.

would've been nice to see Noel and AD together

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would've been nice to see Noel and AD together

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Not really.