- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: AD knocking down 3s on par with Curry/Thompson in practice
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:47 pm to htran90
Posted on 8/18/14 at 7:47 pm to htran90
quote:
Having a complete game isn't necessary, but it does help if he's a more complete player
I think this is where you lose me. In my mind, front court players aren't supposed to be outside shooters. So they can be "complete" players without a 3pt shot. It's not necessary. In the 80's, the league was full of Centers that could shoot just as well as guards (Ewing, Hakeem, Robinson, Daugherty..). But those teams succeeded because those Centers dominated in the paint and operated within a system.
quote:
No one wants him chucking up 3's everytime he touches the ball, but if teams are going to dare him to shoot it by clogging the lane leaving him somewhat open, wouldn't you rather him be able to knock it down?
I don't know how this would be possible. Your saying that Davis wouldn't be able to get inside the paint? He should already be there posting up or fighting for position. Something is wrong if he is trying to create at the top of the key. He's not a guard and it's asking him to do to much.
quote:
I bet it would open up the lanes in the middle for our guards.
I get it. But I don't understand pulling front court players out of the paint, that are proficient post scorers, to give guards lanes to drive. That can work in spurts, but that offense won't work long term.
quote:
Evans practicing an outside shot this summer as well shows me everyone is trying to complete their offensive game
I hate to burst your bubble, but Evans has been working on his outside shooting every summer he has been in the league. He says the same thing every summer. I just read a Slam article from last summer where he said all the same things. I'll believe it when I see it.
This post was edited on 8/18/14 at 7:48 pm
4
Posted on 8/18/14 at 8:11 pm to brmark70816
quote:
I think this is where you lose me. In my mind, front court players aren't supposed to be outside shooters.
This post was edited on 8/18/14 at 8:13 pm
Posted on 8/18/14 at 8:19 pm to brmark70816
quote:
No one wants him chucking up 3's everytime he touches the ball, but if teams are going to dare him to shoot it by clogging the lane leaving him somewhat open, wouldn't you rather him be able to knock it down?
I don't know how this would be possible. Your saying that Davis wouldn't be able to get inside the paint? He should already be there posting up or fighting for position. Something is wrong if he is trying to create at the top of the key. He's not a guard and it's asking him to do to much.
This is the flaw in the let him shoot 3s to open spacing logic. Davis already commands constant attention from defenses. Moving him out to the 3PT line wouldn't change that. Evans already gets to the rim whenever he wants. It's how you manipulate those facts to create shots for others that counts.
Plus, Davis's two best moves right now are one dribble to the rim and one dribble pull up jumper- which are both largely unguardable and happen because teams won't just sag and dare him to shoot. Getting to the rim in one bounce is a lot harder from 23 feet and one dribble pull up from 20 feet is the definition of bad shot.
Like I said earlier, he probably should add 3PT range. He has the ability and it just makes sense to add that weapon (high PnR becomes a nightmare). But he doesn't need it to dominate (see Amare Stoudemire in PHX). Even peak Dirk was only taking 2-3 3PA/G.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 8:27 pm to TigerinATL
Flapflapflapflap
Posted on 8/18/14 at 8:38 pm to corndeaux
He's probably been a guard type player most of his life. He definitely looks comfortable with his outside game. That's a reason I say I see his game trending more 3 than 5, offensively.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 8:41 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Plus, Davis's two best moves right now are one dribble to the rim and one dribble pull up jumper- which are both largely unguardable and happen because teams won't just sag and dare him to shoot.
Yarp. Imagine Davis adding a legit corner 3. I'm thinking that Ibaka might be the only guy in the West that might be able to defend him. Even if someone gets in tight while he's in the corner, he's going to be able to draw tons of fouls driving to the basket. He's also a capable passer that should be able to find guys like Reke in the lane. If Reke has a SG (or even better, a PG) on him, I could see AD passing it in to Reke by himself in the paint (with Ryno along the perimeter) and Reke being able to post up a guy 2" shorter and 20lbs lighter than he is. I'd rather AD develop a post game than a 3pt game, but he's already got the sweet stroke, so why not add some range to his game if he doesn't have to put in much work? He's only 21 years old, and still svelte. It's not the end of the world if he keeps improving as a player but doesn't become an above average post player until he's ~25.
This post was edited on 8/18/14 at 8:42 pm
Posted on 8/18/14 at 8:51 pm to brmark70816
quote:
In the 80's, the league was full of Centers that could shoot just as well as guards (Ewing, Hakeem, Robinson, Daugherty..). But those teams succeeded because those Centers dominated in the paint and operated within a system.
the game has changed, brah.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 8:51 pm to brmark70816
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Davis getting bulk/majority of the points in the paint. I think that is where most of his points will come from and where he should be. Him being able to knock it down when needed if he's open (similar to how Bosh occasionally gets that open shot) is what I'm referring to.
It isn't something I want him to do on a Love-type basis, but being able to hit it at similar Dirk clips only makes him more dangerous (38-39%). During the championship season, he averaged 17fga a game and shot 3 3pt attempts. Isn't his main arsenal, but he can still knock it down.
It isn't something I want him to do on a Love-type basis, but being able to hit it at similar Dirk clips only makes him more dangerous (38-39%). During the championship season, he averaged 17fga a game and shot 3 3pt attempts. Isn't his main arsenal, but he can still knock it down.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 9:06 pm to THRILLHO
quote:
Imagine Davis adding a legit corner 3
quote:
He's also a capable passer that should be able to find guys like Reke in the lane
How much does Davis have to do? Isn't it enough that he is a 20ppg scorer and an awesome defender? Now he has to spread the floor and get guys open shots. That is just too much. We should be focusing on other guys stepping up and expanding their games..
quote:
It's not the end of the world if he keeps improving as a player but doesn't become an above average post player until he's ~25.
Davis is already a dominant post player. He is 20 lbs away from being the best front court player in the league. We are talking a 24/12/4bpg player. He could get there this summer. He's not that far away.
It's obvious everybody has a different idea of what Davis should be or will become. I have always thought he'd be the next coming of Duncan. It seems others want him to be a mix of a Dirk, Garnett or Durant (more perimeter player). I can see their points, but he's better off focusing on strength and power now. He'll have more success earlier that way. It's just easier to build around and the team will win more.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 9:13 pm to brmark70816
Or he can become arguably the best player in this generation. A PF/C that can defend, get a combined 6 blocks and steals a game, double digit rebounds, 3-4apg, and 20+ points shooting 50/40/80
Why limit him to what is "enough" when he can do it all. If LeBron sat around and did 'just enough', and expect his teammates to pick up the slack, he wouldn't be LeBron.
AD's potential is limitless at this point, he's not even in his prime and he's arguably the 3rd best player in this league.
Why limit him to what is "enough" when he can do it all. If LeBron sat around and did 'just enough', and expect his teammates to pick up the slack, he wouldn't be LeBron.
AD's potential is limitless at this point, he's not even in his prime and he's arguably the 3rd best player in this league.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 9:29 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Davis is already a dominant post player.
Maybe. I'm referring mostly to post up game, which he is capable but from from great at.
quote:
He is 20 lbs away from being the best front court player in the league
Sure, but you're underestimating how difficult adding 20lbs of solid weight (as opposed to Sean Kemp weight) can be. Davis was a top 10 player last season when he was mostly 20 years old. He works his arse off and seems truly dedicated to the game. A lot of people want him to be a pure center, but what if Monty/Dell simply told him to try to improve what he's most comfortable doing? Why try to force him into a certain role? He's been working on adding weight each offseason and has had moderate success, but he's admitted that it's difficult to maintain the weight over the season.
AD is the kind of player that you tell "do whatever the frick you want to do", and then you build your team around those strengths. The addition of Asik tells me that AD is more comfortable as a more perimeter oriented player. He is a great rebounder and has sufficient bulk to player center next to Ryno for the final ~5 minutes each half (depending on matchups). It makes a lot more sense to find guys like Asik and Ryno to play with AD than it does trying to force AD to develop a back to the basket game and add 20lbs of muscle.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 9:39 pm to htran90
I admire your enthusiasm, but your expectations are insane. Give the kid time and let him grow naturally. He shouldn't have to carry a team like that. Management should put the pieces around him to help him succeed.
Once again, just craziness. No matter what, Durant and James are in his generation (generations are around 20 year periods). So are Paul, Howard, heck even Kobe and Duncan. You want Davis to be better than all them, then he needs rings, lots of them. He hasn't even made the playoffs yet.
I'd rather focus on making the team good and putting Davis in the best position to succeed. He wants to win more than anything else. James won when he got better teammates and coaches/management. That's what we need to do for Davis.
quote:
Or he can become arguably the best player in this generation. A PF/C that can defend, get a combined 6 blocks and steals a game, double digit rebounds, 3-4apg, and 20+ points shooting 50/40/80
Once again, just craziness. No matter what, Durant and James are in his generation (generations are around 20 year periods). So are Paul, Howard, heck even Kobe and Duncan. You want Davis to be better than all them, then he needs rings, lots of them. He hasn't even made the playoffs yet.
I'd rather focus on making the team good and putting Davis in the best position to succeed. He wants to win more than anything else. James won when he got better teammates and coaches/management. That's what we need to do for Davis.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 9:45 pm to brmark70816
quote:
I admire your enthusiasm, but your expectations are insane. Give the kid time and let him grow naturally. He shouldn't have to carry a team like that. Management should put the pieces around him to help him succeed.
Once again, just craziness. No matter what, Durant and James are in his generation (generations are around 20 year periods). So are Paul, Howard, heck even Kobe and Duncan. You want Davis to be better than all them, then he needs rings, lots of them. He hasn't even made the playoffs yet.
I'd rather focus on making the team good and putting Davis in the best position to succeed. He wants to win more than anything else. James won when he got better teammates and coaches/management. That's what we need to do for Davis.
You make solid points here to be fair
He's in a position to succeed now with the amount of talent that's in place.
It's up to monty to make it work.
Posted on 8/18/14 at 9:50 pm to brmark70816
I meant to say 5, not 6. Getting 6 combined, now that is absurd on all levels.
He's already averaging 2.8 blocks and 1.3 steals last year. During his best stretch, he averaged 3.4b/1.7s in January and 3.9b/1.8s in November. That isn't out of the realm of possibility.
The only thing he's truly missing is the 3pt attempt/stroke/% and apg.
But say he doesn't get the 3pt %, him averaging 50+fg%, 80+ft% (averaged 79.1% last year), and 3 assists isn't impossible when he's say 25.
Griffin has averaged 3+apg his whole career and Love has slowly crept up from 1->2->4apg as well.
Ultimately, he could be one of the first players to ever average
50+ fg%
80+ ft%
25/10/3 w/ 5b/spg
LeBron is averaging unreal numbers that we've never seen since Jordan's 30/8/8 season. I'm talking purely individual capabilities and AD's right now are limitless considering he's only 21 and already putting up #s that all-time greats took years to put up.
As for "greatest in the generation" that'll be a team thing, and he needs the rings, but on an individual player basis, I think he has the potential to put up some of the greatest #s we've ever seen.
He's already averaging 2.8 blocks and 1.3 steals last year. During his best stretch, he averaged 3.4b/1.7s in January and 3.9b/1.8s in November. That isn't out of the realm of possibility.
The only thing he's truly missing is the 3pt attempt/stroke/% and apg.
But say he doesn't get the 3pt %, him averaging 50+fg%, 80+ft% (averaged 79.1% last year), and 3 assists isn't impossible when he's say 25.
Griffin has averaged 3+apg his whole career and Love has slowly crept up from 1->2->4apg as well.
Ultimately, he could be one of the first players to ever average
50+ fg%
80+ ft%
25/10/3 w/ 5b/spg
LeBron is averaging unreal numbers that we've never seen since Jordan's 30/8/8 season. I'm talking purely individual capabilities and AD's right now are limitless considering he's only 21 and already putting up #s that all-time greats took years to put up.
As for "greatest in the generation" that'll be a team thing, and he needs the rings, but on an individual player basis, I think he has the potential to put up some of the greatest #s we've ever seen.
This post was edited on 8/18/14 at 9:52 pm
Posted on 8/18/14 at 9:52 pm to THRILLHO
quote:
but what if Monty/Dell simply told him to try to improve what he's most comfortable doing?
Yep.
quote:
but he's admitted that it's difficult to maintain the weight over the season.
Yep, it is for some people.
quote:
The addition of Asik tells me that AD is more comfortable as a more perimeter oriented player.
At this point he is. Been saying that.
quote:
. It makes a lot more sense to find guys like Asik and Ryno to play with AD than it does trying to force AD to develop a back to the basket game and add 20lbs of muscle.
What makes AD a great player is how quick and fluid he is, on both ends. 20 pounds on him right now would be a hindrance.
This post was edited on 8/18/14 at 9:55 pm
Posted on 8/18/14 at 9:56 pm to THRILLHO
quote:
AD is the kind of player that you tell "do whatever the frick you want to do", and then you build your team around those strengths
I have no problem with that to a point. But it's constant tinkering to make the pieces fit. I saw the Wolves do the same thing with Garnett for the longest time. He would put up crazy numbers and the team had moderate success, but they could never find the right mix. It took years for Garnett to find his niche.
quote:
The addition of Asik tells me that AD is more comfortable as a more perimeter oriented player
I'm sure they are trying to limit the abuse Davis takes and I'm on board for that. The Spurs were able to do that with Duncan early when they had Robinson. It gave time for Duncan to fill out. It's a smart move, but I don't think it's a sign that Davis should shift more to the perimeter. They are just trying to get the bulkier guys off him.
quote:
He's been working on adding weight each offseason and has had moderate success, but he's admitted that it's difficult to maintain the weight over the season.
It's not going to be easy. He'll have to work at it, but that will give him the bigger edge. That's why D. Howard can be a horrible basketball player and still be dominant. Davis is already taller and longer than him (plus way more skilled). If he can even come close to that size and bulk, then look out. That should be the goal..
Posted on 8/18/14 at 10:11 pm to htran90
quote:
As for "greatest in the generation" that'll be a team thing, and he needs the rings, but on an individual player basis, I think he has the potential to put up some of the greatest #s we've ever seen
Just for kicks, I actually went and looked up Jordan's seasons after you mentioned the one. It's just amazing. I'm 40, so I grew up watching Jordan and even I forgot the insane #'s he put up.
87-88- 35.0/5.5/5.9/3.2spg and 1.6bpg (combined 4.8).. 54%fg playing all 82 games
That's just craziness. I don't think anyone will put up #'s like that again..
This post was edited on 8/18/14 at 10:14 pm
Posted on 8/18/14 at 10:42 pm to brmark70816
I don't want AD to become a perimeter player either. One of his most impressive natural skills is the ability to finish at the basket and draw the foul, give me a 3 point play with the opposing big picking up a foul before giving me a 3 pointer. That being said, AD is a unique talent like LeBron and looks like he'll be able to score from anywhere on the floor. I think you want him to be capable of shooting 3s not so it becomes part of his game like Kevin Love, but so he can make his teammates better when he doesn't have the ball, in the example I gave earlier, playing off the Tyreke/Asik P&R.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 6:24 am to Gtothemoney
quote:
The addition of Asik tells me that AD is more comfortable as a more perimeter oriented player.
At this point he is. Been saying that.
I think there's a difference of understanding going on in this conversation. Perimeter to me means beyond the 3pt line, not just away from the paint.
Davis isn't a back to basket player, but he dominates in and around the paint. He also isn't a wing but he likes to shoot and attack from the mid range. That's why I keep bringing up STAT
Bringing in Asik in no way means Davis will be floating around the 3pt line. Could he? Sure. But that would be because of Davis, not Asik. They brought Asik in to play defense, not to move Davis away from the basket on offense
I do not see him ever getting the floor game from the perimeter of a Durant like some have said. Then again, I've been wrong about him before
To be honest and blasphemous on this board, if he gets Blake Griffin's dribbling and face up skills, I'll be very happy
Posted on 8/19/14 at 8:20 am to brmark70816
quote:
I was really just looking for a reason to link that clip, so everybody can see how ridiculous it looks for a Center to jack up 3's
Good thing Davis is a power forward.
Page 2 of 3
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News