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Message
re: About the draft . . .
Posted on 3/27/16 at 9:30 am to FootballNostradamus
Posted on 3/27/16 at 9:30 am to FootballNostradamus
Because name how many 4 year college players have became successful players? Right now CJ and Lillard and they were largely overlooked because they went to small school not major ones like Oklahoma.
1
Posted on 3/27/16 at 10:25 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
So no, Hield and Crawford seem pretty much nothing alike other than neither are assist guys.
who was your comparison again?
you're nitpicking and probably too young to understand the comparison at all.
This post was edited on 3/27/16 at 10:28 am
Posted on 3/27/16 at 10:27 am to 504ByrdGang
quote:
Because name how many 4 year college players have became successful players?
Steph Curry, Tim Duncan, David West, Draymond Green, JJ Redick ,Parson, Wesley Matthews
Posted on 3/27/16 at 10:45 am to Lester Earl
quote:
quote:
So no, Hield and Crawford seem pretty much nothing alike other than neither are assist guys.
who was your comparison again?
you're nitpicking and probably too young to understand the comparison at all.
2014-15 Eric Gordon with better health.
And here we go with the straw man argument. i suppose the legendary memory of LE is greater than statistics.
nitpicking? Your comparison is a 40% career shooter who's taken over 1/3 his shots in the dumb zone for his career. Hield lives at the rim or beyond the arc.
He had a whopping 50% TS% his final year in college before coming out for the draft.
He also had character concerns and question marks. Buddy Hield and Jamal Crawford have very little in common. This whole "you obviously didn't watch Crawford in college" argument is beyond ridiculous. Go look up his last year at Michigan. I don't know if you guys are some Michigan fan bois or just pretending to watch so much ball you can remember these guys in college 16 years back. The stats show you have no clue WTF you're talking about.
Btw, Hield had a better TS % than Crawford's last year as a So. And a Jr. I went in digging around expecting Crawford to be an inefficient chucker but he exceeded expectations.
If you want a college comparison..Brandon Roy
This post was edited on 3/27/16 at 10:50 am
Posted on 3/27/16 at 11:14 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
itpicking? Your comparison is a 40% career shooter who's taken over 1/3 his shots in the dumb zone for his career.
again which is why i said Hield would be a more efficient version of Crawford. My comparison at its root had to do with 3 things.
A)body type, 6'4" range with decent length. Hield being a little more squatty
B)ability to be mobile with the ball. Neither are just "spot up shooters".
C)Role on the team that drafts him. 16-18ppg scorer, offering not much else in the rebounding or assist category.
His shot selection will be better than Crawford's from day 1, and he is a much better shooter at this juncture. Half of Hield's shots are 3 pointers, so what exactly is chucker by your definition?
If you want to split hairs, fine. If comparing a 4 yr SR's college stats to a 1 and done makes sense to you, thats cool too. If you want to also sit here and pretend like every single part of Hield's game will translate to the NBA, right on. I dont expect him to find his shot as easy as he has this year at OK, but i still like him as a prospect.
quote:
2014-15 Eric Gordon with better health.
ok, well if we are just going to cherry pick years, the 09-10 Crawford with ATL.
quote:
This whole "you obviously didn't watch Crawford in college" argument is beyond ridiculous.
That's not my point. My point is if you only know the Clippers version of Crawford, then you only know the guy that plays the role as 3pt shooter. I honestly dont know how old you are, but Crawford has been in the league for 16 years.
Same holds true for Eric Gordon. His game isnt what it used to be. He cant do shite off the dribble any more.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 11:26 am to Lester Earl
quote:
Steph Curry, Tim Duncan, David West, Draymond Green, JJ Redick ,Parson, Wesley Matthews
Steph played 3 years
Duncan, West, and Green are big men
So we have Parsons, Wesly, and Reddick. 2 guys who weren't first round picks and Reddick who took 7 years to find his game thats really convincing. Not one all-star just some good role players.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 11:30 am to 504ByrdGang
quote:
Steph played 3 years
still played some of his rookie year as a 22 year old. Isnt this an age thing to you?
quote:
So we have Parsons, Wesly, and Reddick. 2 guys who weren't first round picks and Reddick who took 7 years to find his game thats really convincing. Not one all-star just some good role players.
Brandon Roy mentioned above as well.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 11:30 am to Lester Earl
To be fair, Hield is a very good rebounder. Crawford has never shown any interest in rebounding at any level.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 11:33 am to supe12sta12z
Good article on Buddy Hield
#flames
quote:
"I saw the comments Oregon said," Hield said. "Certain guys were saying they were going to 'go at Buddy Hield.' So I was like, 'OK, you want to go at me, I'm going to go right at you.' You don't play with fire."
#flames
quote:
That includes Oregon's best perimeter defender, Elgin Cook. Cook played tough defense against Hield throughout the night, contesting his shots and denying him the ball in the spots Hield would prefer it. Genuinely, it is impossible to blame the athletic, 6-foot-6 Oregon senior for letting Hield get loose. Cook couldn't help but laugh when he was asked what the difference was between playing against Hield in person and watching him on tape.
"It's real," Cook said with a chuckle. "I feel like I played pretty good defense on him, but he still shot above 50 percent from the 3-point line. I mean, he made eight 3s. So, maybe I should have been closer to him. Should have made him drive the ball."
Posted on 3/27/16 at 11:43 am to hendersonshands
Where is cook being drafted for his elite defense?
Posted on 3/27/16 at 11:46 am to supe12sta12z
quote:
To be fair, Hield is a very good rebounder.
he's average for the position. He might get 2-3 per game in the league
Posted on 3/27/16 at 11:56 am to Lester Earl
2-3 per game? Even terrible rebounding guards luck into that. Come on man. Hield already has 20 pounds on Crawford btw. Again the only thing they have in common is volume scoring ability.
This exercise is getting pointless.
Hield just crushed a 1 seed who made it a point to go after him on D. If you can't get excited about the prospects of him being a Pel now, it's not gonna happen until he proves you wrong in the NBA.
This exercise is getting pointless.
Hield just crushed a 1 seed who made it a point to go after him on D. If you can't get excited about the prospects of him being a Pel now, it's not gonna happen until he proves you wrong in the NBA.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 12:08 pm to ShamelessPel
quote:
2-3 per game? Even terrible rebounding guards luck into that
there are 8 SG's that average over 4 per game. 2 or 3 per game is about average.
quote:
Hield just crushed a 1 seed who made it a point to go after him on D. If you can't get excited about the prospects of him being a Pel now, it's not gonna happen until he proves you wrong in the NBA.
you think im hating on Hield?
Hield has been my guy since December when he wasnt even a lottery pick.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 12:10 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Half of Hield's shots are 3 pointers, so what exactly is chucker by your definition?
Chuckers are inefficient volume shooters. You wouldn't call Kyle Korver a chucker because he takes 3's. Chuckers tend to take long 2's and are inefficient on higher volume.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 12:26 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
there are 8 SG's that average over 4 per game. 2 or 3 per game is about average.
Yeah, that's what I think the Hield fanatics aren't getting. It's like they think Jamal Crawford is an insulting comparison. For Hield to do what some of these people think he's going to do, he'd need to score over 20 ppg. That is not easy to do. 24 of 450 players have a 20 ppg average or more this year. That's literally the top 5% of scorers in the league. The non stars on this list are:
CJ McCollum
Kemba Walker
Isaiah Thomas
Eric Bledsoe
The rest of the list reads like an All Star or All NBA team, LINK Just sort it by points.
If Hield is going to join that list then yes, we'd be foolish not to take him, but the only guys on this list that have bad assist numbers in the 2s are Klay Thompson, Brook Lopez, Kawhi Leonard and Andrew Wiggins. There just aren't any one dimensional scorers on the list. If you want to believe Hield will be special you don't need to talk about how his scoring will translate, you have to talk about why you think things like his assists will improve.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 12:40 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
Yeah, that's what I think the Hield fanatics aren't getting. It's like they think Jamal Crawford is an insulting comparison
It is an insulting comparison. The only thing not insulting is the PPG column. Everything else is insulting when you are as efficient as Hield. Why do you insist on breaking Hield = Crawford down to one single column on the stat sheet? It's like because you agreed with it initially you are digging your heels into the sand.
I'm surprised as your posts normally contain substance and analysis. When it comes to this, you are simplifying it to the one thing they might have in common at the next level, PPG.
If I knew I was getting Jamal Crawford in Buddy Hield at 6, I would say HARD PASS and shoot for someone with more upside.
ETA: I don't think anyone is arguing Hield is going to be a franchise player. I think people want him cause we have 2 pieces already, and he compliments them well. He's also high character and a hard worker. He won't be a stud defender, but he's not going to suck either.
This post was edited on 3/27/16 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 3/27/16 at 1:07 pm to ShamelessPel
quote:
When it comes to this, you are simplifying it to the one thing they might have in common at the next level, PPG.
That's literally the only column that matters because that's the only column he's above average in. So Hield shoots better than Crawford, that's going to get him more points, not more shots, and I already conceded that saying he might average 2-3 more points than Crawford.
quote:
I'm surprised as your posts normally contain substance and analysis.
I have done analysis, that's exactly why I'm questioning him. Jamal Crawford has a career average of 34.8% from 3 on 5 3s a game. That's 1.8 3s made or 5.4 points per game. Let's say Buddy averages 6 3s a game and shoots 40% from 3. That's 2.4 3s made per game or an additional 1.8 ppg. 15.5 + 1.8 = 17.3 Like I said I can see him being an 18 ppg scorer rather than Crawfords 15.5, but I think you might be overestimating just how many more points increased efficiency gets you.
The Ryan Andersons and Jamal Crawfords of the world have the skill to score more than 20 ppg, but they don't get enough leash to use that skill because they are one dimensional scorers. Kyle Korver only got 6 3 point shots per game last season when he was averaging 49% from 3. Just because you're good at it doesn't mean you get the shots. Hield will be no different if he can't bring more to the table than scoring.
At least Nola Bronco has tried to paint Hield's no good teammates as a reason for his low assist number. Granted it was only a one game sample size, but it's arguing in the right direction instead of doing what you and others are doing and just answering "you must not watch him" to "why will he be more than a scorer only in the NBA."
I'm not hating on Hield, but I haven't watched him as much as many of you so I'm trying to use your increased experience with Hield to understand why you think he will be so much more in the NBA. But if you think he'll have a different role in the NBA than Crawford and Anderson just because he's more efficient, I think you're wrong and all of your assumptions about Hield at the next level are based on a shaky foundation.
This post was edited on 3/27/16 at 1:15 pm
Posted on 3/27/16 at 1:09 pm to TigerinATL
I think that's the funniest part. We are not saying Hield will be trash. We think he would be a guy who would put up 16-18/2/2 on 45/43/90 and play good team D but not a lockdown defender. While they are comparing him to Steph and Harden like thats more realistic. Saying he's a great for this team is so wrong we need much more than just scoring and a 22 year old will not come here and be a leader on this team. We just rather a guy with a higher ceiling that can be a star and contribute more than just scoring.
Posted on 3/27/16 at 1:21 pm to TigerinATL
I've never said he'd be more than a scorer.
And the flaw in your PPG argument that your kind of making for me inadvertently is increased efficiency = increased scoring without the cost of possessions.
I want an efficient shooter next to Holiday and Davis that can get his own shot and keep a defense honest by getting to the rim. I don't want a player you HAVE to run sets for to get him open looks like Redick or Korver.
If I thought he'd be a massive liability on defense, Id be more wary. But by most accounts, he's going to be average - above average on that end and has the body to at least be better than the Crawfords and Andersons of the world.
ETA: please show me posts where I or anyone else said he's going to be Curry or Harden. NBAdraft.net has him listed as a Harden comparison. You're putting words in people's mouths that aren't there to frame arguments.
ETA2: you're also using Curry's meteoric and once in a lifetime rise to use him as like LOLCurry, but Hield has traits of college Curry. Remember, multiple PGs went before Curry in that draft. They use him because he can handle the rock and unlike some of the other college long range bombers can actually get his own shot.
And the flaw in your PPG argument that your kind of making for me inadvertently is increased efficiency = increased scoring without the cost of possessions.
I want an efficient shooter next to Holiday and Davis that can get his own shot and keep a defense honest by getting to the rim. I don't want a player you HAVE to run sets for to get him open looks like Redick or Korver.
If I thought he'd be a massive liability on defense, Id be more wary. But by most accounts, he's going to be average - above average on that end and has the body to at least be better than the Crawfords and Andersons of the world.
ETA: please show me posts where I or anyone else said he's going to be Curry or Harden. NBAdraft.net has him listed as a Harden comparison. You're putting words in people's mouths that aren't there to frame arguments.
ETA2: you're also using Curry's meteoric and once in a lifetime rise to use him as like LOLCurry, but Hield has traits of college Curry. Remember, multiple PGs went before Curry in that draft. They use him because he can handle the rock and unlike some of the other college long range bombers can actually get his own shot.
This post was edited on 3/27/16 at 1:30 pm
Posted on 3/27/16 at 1:32 pm to ShamelessPel
quote:
I've never said he'd be more than a scorer.
That's kind of implicit in you thinking that a 17-18ppg average is insulting. Maybe we're each getting caught up on irrelevant side points of the others arguments, but if you think he'll be more than an 18 ppg scorer, I take that to mean he'll be in the top 5 percent of scorers which he shouldn't be if he's only a scorer.
quote:
I want an efficient shooter next to Holiday and Davis that can get his own shot and keep a defense honest by getting to the rim. I don't want a player you HAVE to run sets for to get him open looks like Redick or Korver.
I would not be upset if we drafted Hield at 5/6, I just would question if that was the best use of our best asset left to keep AD. TBW posted an article today examining different cap space scenarios, and if AD doesn't make the all NBA team, and you dump everyone that's dumpable (Gordon/Ryno/Tyrke/Ajinca), like a new GM might, then you'd have $35 million in cap space which might be enough to add Bazemore and Barnes which would let Hield slide into his ideal role of 6th man scorer.
Jrue/Frazier
Bazemore/Hield
Barnes/QPon/Babbitt
AD/Cunningham
Asik
LINK
I don't think Demps can pull that off, but I bet Travis Schlenk could. Hield would make the most sense as the pick in that situation as well. If you're adding Bazemore and Barnes and getting QPon back, something like Valentine and Taurean Prince all of a sudden becomes more redundant than Hield so you're not getting the same value out of a 2 for 1 talent addition with the trade back as you'd get taking Hield.
This post was edited on 3/27/16 at 1:56 pm
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