re: Def Leppard

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Adrian Vandenberg

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Total beast. Their debut album has some of the best guitar solos from that era. Love that guy.

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if you haven't already done so, checkout his moonkings project. more blues based rock than what you'd expect.

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As a drummer, you have to admit that after the accident, the recordings simply didn't have the same feel that they did prior to. Rick may not have been the best musician in the band, but he was the person who inspired me to begin playing drums. When Pyromania was released, there simply wasn't much out there that in the form of rock that was that "driven" from a drum standpoint.

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Well, before I argue with you, let me say , because Rick was also my inspiration to take up the drums back in '87. I've never known of another drummer who was also inspired by him. Anyway...I agree that rock music in '82/'83 was severely lacking.

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So you're trying to convince me that no drum machine was ever used on any of their recordings post accident. If you can't hear the drum machine tracking behind Rick on "Rocket", I'm not sure what to tell you.

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Having listened to all the Leppard albums several thousand times, watched numerous documentaries (and read countless magazines/books/online articles) about the making of Hysteria and Pyromania, I would say that, if you think that the background pulses you're hearing on "Rocket" are traces of inadvertent "drum machine tracking" that somehow made their way onto the final recording, then I don't know what to tell you. According to the band and to Mutt, what you're hearing are layered and carefully-eq'd patterns played one-at-a-time by Rick, recorded to tape and mixed together. If you put on headphones and listen close to the drums on Pyromania and Hysteria, you'll hear cymbal/drum patterns that make it obvious that the drums and cymbals were recorded separately, as claimed by Mutt and the band.

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The song begins with a computer generated high hat track and you can plainly hear Rick play the intro fill with that track playing underneath the fill. Now one of two things has happened here...... either he triggered that high hat sound and then overdubbed the fills.....or there's a drum machine track underneath him.

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As I mentioned above, what you're describing here is the layering of numerous single recorded tracks on top of each other, which is a common practice still used by bands today when recording and when playing live (with guitar tracks, vocal tracks; etc.). If you're pointing that out as some sort of weakness, I think that's misguided. Anyone who has researched Mutt Lange's production of the Pyromania and Hysteria albums knows that what Mutt did was record Rick's cymbals on a sub-group, then record the kick/snare/tom parts on another sub-group, and mixed them together. When recording in this fashion, any drummer can layer patterns one on top of another. I've participated in recording sessions where this took place, and it has nothing to do with a "drum machine". Mutt executed that type of recording with guitar parts, bass parts, and vocals. The band is very open about the fact that those albums were built "note by note"; e.g. each song is comprised of pieced-together parts of numerous different takes. Again, this is not unusual in recording sessions over the last three decades. You'd be surprised how many songs you hear on the radio were also built the same way.

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Not to mention the fact that live, they were triggering all kinds of parts.....at least when I heard them in 2005.

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Again, numerous bands use triggering of sampled parts when playing live, and that has been done for years. This is no way unique to Def Leppard...

I saw them at the Centroplex right off the boat from England when they opened for Ted Nugent and the Scorpions back in 1980. At that point they were all teenagers and had this amazing jittery energy. It's hard to imagine now but they immediately became my favorite band for about two years afterward (I was only 14 y/o at the time). That actually ended with the Pyromania show at the Centroplex that you're talking about. It wasn't terrible but it wasn't nearly as good IMO. Something about Phil Collen just shot the whole thing down for me.

I find it hilarious when Joe Revisionist Elliot tries to claim they never had anything to do with heavy metal. To me and a lot of fans, they were the absolute embodiment of NWOBHM at the time. I got exposed to them through a rock mag article that cited them and Iron Maiden as the two flag bearers of the British movement. It was the first mention I saw of either of those bands anywhere.

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I saw them at the Centroplex right off the boat from England when they opened for Ted Nugent and the Scorpions back in 1980.

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Ahh. On Through The Night tour. Nice!! Would love to have seen that.

In fact, The Scorpions are another formerly great band that later went to shite IMO, but was still damn good in 1980. Great show there.

I'm not sure why the hate for Def Leppard here. Super nice guys off the stage and this is first hand experience without having to pay money for a meet n greet.

They were never a true rock band per say when you compare them to others of that era (AC/DC for example). They were always a rock/pop band and have admitted that. They wanted radio air play and exposure which MTV did that for them.

The albums after Hysteria were not that good I do admit that. But very few bands had albums that did as well as Pyromania and Hysteria. Both of those records produced massive hits. If you were around at that time and heard some of the stuff that was being played on the radio then you would understand why they were big hits too.

For those who are just trashing the band for whatever reason, then that's fine. Everyone has different taste and different style of music that they enjoy over others. But if you want to say that they flat out suck then try writing something that has the same appeal and success as:

Love Bites
Pour Some Sugar
Hysteria
Photograph
Rock of Ages
Foolin
Animal
Woman
Promises
High n Dry
Rock Rock
Rocket

You can hate them if you like but you should respect what they were able to do. I'm sure you all would love to have those royalty checks rolling in every month.

I really liked On Through the Night. And loved the first Vandenberg disc.

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Having listened to all the Leppard albums several thousand times, watched numerous documentaries (and read countless magazines/books/online articles) about the making of Hysteria and Pyromania, I would say that, if you think that the background pulses you're hearing on "Rocket" are traces of inadvertent "drum machine tracking" that somehow made their way onto the final recording, then I don't know what to tell you. According to the band and to Mutt, what you're hearing are layered and carefully-eq'd patterns played one-at-a-time by Rick, recorded to tape and mixed together. If you put on headphones and listen close to the drums on Pyromania and Hysteria, you'll hear cymbal/drum patterns that make it obvious that the drums and cymbals were recorded separately, as claimed by Mutt and the band.

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Overdubbing?

And I think that's what I hated about him losing his arm more than anything else. He was the heart and soul of that band in my opinion and I loved that. My Dad who worked as a drummer for 40 years in Nashville with many of the biggest names in country music was even impressed with not only his playing on Pyromania but the drum sound that he and Mutt produced.

It's funny that I checked this today because on my way to work this morning, Rocket was on the radio and I listened to closely once again. As you mentioned, layers and layers of tracks. Regardless of whether Rick played them individually or they were programmed, it's all the same to me. I guess I'm just old school in that sense. I love the isolated track of Fool in the Rain, the way he made that simple 5 piece kit sound like a freaking wall of sound. Rick did the same thing prior to the accident, something that few drummers really ever can achieve.

BTW....my daughter goes to school with Phil Collen's daughter and I've been fortunate enough to meet him a few times. I've abstained from talking "shop" with him but this is something I may ask him about during the next "Doughnuts for Dad" day. LOL

I appreciate the back and forth and respect your opinion because you've shown you know what you're talking about here.

Their old songs are the most singable songs of all time, you gotta admit that. They may have had some misses, but they've had a bunch of hit songs since the late 70s/early 80s. Not sure if they put on a decent live concert or not, they may not now since their old, but their contributions to music is still fairly significant. They're a decent rock band. It must be really popular to hate Def Leppard nowadays.