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Unforgiven question
Posted on 3/17/16 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 3/17/16 at 12:04 pm
So glad they added this back to Netflix, what a great great movie. I just watched it a few days ago and was very entertained.
My question: Did you see Little Bill as a flawed, but ultimately well-meaning character or as a straight-up villain?
I enjoyed how his character was fleshed out over the course of the movie; at the beginning I was like "this guy's a douchebag and kind of a hardass, but I like him," but by the end of the movie I saw him as just totally corrupted by power and a thoroughly antagonistic "bad guy."
Maybe this is a dumb question. I was really impressed by Eastwood, Hackman, and Freeman's acting and even the kid who plays Eastwood's sidekick. Just hoping to get a discussion started about the movie.
My question: Did you see Little Bill as a flawed, but ultimately well-meaning character or as a straight-up villain?
I enjoyed how his character was fleshed out over the course of the movie; at the beginning I was like "this guy's a douchebag and kind of a hardass, but I like him," but by the end of the movie I saw him as just totally corrupted by power and a thoroughly antagonistic "bad guy."
Maybe this is a dumb question. I was really impressed by Eastwood, Hackman, and Freeman's acting and even the kid who plays Eastwood's sidekick. Just hoping to get a discussion started about the movie.
14
Posted on 3/17/16 at 12:06 pm to ManBearTiger
Watched it the other night, too.
One of the GOAT quotes.
One of the GOAT quotes.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 12:08 pm to ManBearTiger
I have this one on DVD... might be about time to dust it off.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 12:14 pm to ManBearTiger
He was a strict authoritarian who got off on running the town. I think he genuinely wanted to uphold the law though.
Will, on the other hand, was a cold blooded murderer who just wanted to collect a bounty. The movie did a great job making him out to be a sympathetic character.
Will, on the other hand, was a cold blooded murderer who just wanted to collect a bounty. The movie did a great job making him out to be a sympathetic character.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 12:15 pm to ManBearTiger
Like Clint said "Kid, we've all got it coming"
There were no heroes in the movie. Just different sides.
There were no heroes in the movie. Just different sides.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 12:20 pm to ManBearTiger
You just shot an unarmed man!!
He should have armed himself
He should have armed himself
Posted on 3/17/16 at 12:24 pm to ManBearTiger
My favorite exchange from that movie doesn't involve any of the stars.
quote:
Fatty Rossiter: It was already loaded. Jesus, Clyde, you have three pistols and you only have one arm for Christ's sake.
Clyde: Well I just don't want to be killed for lack of shootin' back.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 12:42 pm to ManBearTiger
quote:
That's right. I've killed women and children. I've killed just about everything that walks or crawled at one time or another. And I'm here to kill you, Little Bill, for what you did to Ned.
GOAT ending
Posted on 3/17/16 at 12:52 pm to Will Munny
Yours would be an authoritative comment, I guess.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 12:58 pm to ManBearTiger
Hackman's turn as Little Bill is one of my favorite performances in any movie.
The monologue about gunplay is classic. Love how he shuts down arrogant English Bob.
The monologue about gunplay is classic. Love how he shuts down arrogant English Bob.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 1:01 pm to Brosef Stalin
quote:
Will, on the other hand, was a cold blooded murderer who just wanted to collect a bounty.
Sorry but that's bullshite. Will USED to be a really bad guy who did despicable things. But at the time we meet him he's been reformed. One of the KEY plot points of the movie is that the love of his wife, a lady well above his station, inspires Will to change and see the error of his ways. He's truly a changed man, just trying to take care of his family during extremely hard times. Remember, he turns down the kid at first. But, with the dire situation with his farm, he sees no other way to provide for his family. He also justifies his actions because the cowboys cut up an innocent whore.
Little Bill was also a pretty bad man in his past. As the years passed, he also softens, but still has a really sharp edge when it comes to his station as Sheriff.
Neither of them are boyscouts or true villains, but Bill is the bad man that's still bad at heart, Will is the bad man trying to better, but pushed to the edge and has to draw upon his ruthless side again.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 1:06 pm to TygerTyger
quote:
Remember, he turns down the kid at first. But, with the dire situation with his farm, he sees no other way to provide for his family. He also justifies his actions because the cowboys cut up an innocent whore.
Also it's important to remember that the kid exaggerates the extent of the cutting, telling Will and Ned:
"Yeah, they cut up her face, cut her eyes out, cut her fingers off, cut her tits, everything but her cunny, I suppose."
In reality she just had some scarring from cuts to her face.
This post was edited on 3/17/16 at 1:07 pm
Posted on 3/17/16 at 1:18 pm to TygerTyger
Will was able to suppress his dark side for his wife but he was still a killer at heart. He took out Little Bill and his crew like it was nothing. After the fight Beauchamp asked him how he knew who to shoot first, like there was logic behind it like Little Bill said. Will didn't have to think, he just shot. He needed the money because he sucked at farming. Dude was just a natural born killer.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 1:18 pm to ManBearTiger
Will Munny: Who's the fella owns this shithole?
WIll Munny: (To Fatty) You, fat man, speak up.
Skinny Dubois: Uh, I own this establishment. I bought the place from Greeley for a...thousand dollars.
Will Munny: (To the men behind Skinny) You better clear out of there.
Man: Yes sir.
Little Bill Daggett: (As Munny takes aim) Just hold it right there...HOLD IT!
[Munny shoots Dubois]
Little Bill Daggett: You, sir, are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man.
Will Munny: Well he should have armed himself if he's gonna decorate his saloon with my friend.
WIll Munny: (To Fatty) You, fat man, speak up.
Skinny Dubois: Uh, I own this establishment. I bought the place from Greeley for a...thousand dollars.
Will Munny: (To the men behind Skinny) You better clear out of there.
Man: Yes sir.
Little Bill Daggett: (As Munny takes aim) Just hold it right there...HOLD IT!
[Munny shoots Dubois]
Little Bill Daggett: You, sir, are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man.
Will Munny: Well he should have armed himself if he's gonna decorate his saloon with my friend.
This post was edited on 3/17/16 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 3/17/16 at 1:19 pm to TejasHorn
quote:
The monologue about gunplay is classic. Love how he shuts down arrogant English Bob.
The scene with him and English Bob in the jail cell is great.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 1:22 pm to TygerTyger
quote:
Bill is the bad man that's still bad at heart,
I think Bill was a flawed man, but I think he just wanted to protect the people in his town.He didn't want any more trouble from outsiders trying to stir up trouble as he saw it or collect a bounty for something he didn't think the man deserved death for. He wanted to send a message to anyone else who thought of collecting a bounty. He just picked the wrong guy.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 1:28 pm to ManBearTiger
Little Bill wasn't really the bad guy. He really was just trying to uphold the law in that town. He used methods that would be distasteful to us now, but it may have been necessary in those hard times to try to keep order. Even though Munny was the protagonist, he did unjustly kill a bunch of people. He was killing people for hire. He deserved to get caught and probably hanged.
You can argue that he was bringing those guys to justice for cutting up that whore, and Little Bill was corrupt for letting them go easier than they deserved. There's some truth to that. The guy who actually attacked her needed harsher punishment. The other guy seemed more so guilty by association and didn't deserve to get killed. The whores also made things out to be a little worse and different than reality, based off of what "Schofield Kid" said at least.
All in all I don't think there were any good sides to take with any of them really. They all have reasons to both be sympathetic and critical.
You can argue that he was bringing those guys to justice for cutting up that whore, and Little Bill was corrupt for letting them go easier than they deserved. There's some truth to that. The guy who actually attacked her needed harsher punishment. The other guy seemed more so guilty by association and didn't deserve to get killed. The whores also made things out to be a little worse and different than reality, based off of what "Schofield Kid" said at least.
All in all I don't think there were any good sides to take with any of them really. They all have reasons to both be sympathetic and critical.
This post was edited on 3/17/16 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 3/17/16 at 1:38 pm to Peazey
quote:
All in all I don't think there were any good sides to take with any of them really. They all have reasons to both be sympathetic and critical.
Agreed. And that gray area is part of what makes the movie so awesome. It feels real. One of the greatest westerns of all time.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 1:39 pm to TygerTyger
quote:
Will USED to be a really bad guy who did despicable things. But at the time we meet him he's been reformed.
He tried to reform himself. He didn't really. He's still a bad man who still kills a whole heap of people who didn't have it coming and were trying to uphold law and order and do their part in the community. He's sympathetic, but he isn't reformed.
quote:
Neither of them are boyscouts or true villains,
I think we can both agree to this at least.
Posted on 3/17/16 at 1:43 pm to ManBearTiger
"I was lucky in the order, but i've always been lucky when it comes to killing' folks."
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