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Message
re: Kurt Cobain - Montage of Heck
Posted on 5/5/15 at 12:15 pm to ladyluckUGA
Posted on 5/5/15 at 12:15 pm to ladyluckUGA
quote:
Heroine killed off GnR and ushered in the grunge scene.
quote:
FIFY
If GnR had kept their shite together and stayed off the drugs, they'd have reached immortal status, far surpassing the likes of Nirvana.
First off, it's heroin. Katniss Everdeen is a heroine. Second, you say heroin killed off GnR and you don't think the same argument can be made for Nirvana? I love GnR, but the truth is that they had one great album and a few really good ones (I realize a lot of people would say that about Nirvana, too). They were trending down well before it came completely unglued. Spaghetti Incident, anyone? Axl's voice was a mess by '92. And if Axl had his way, they just would have become the next Aerosmith, slinging corny power ballads for a living.
1
Posted on 5/5/15 at 12:21 pm to SoDakHawk
quote:
Yep. GnR was freaking rolling during that time. Nirvana didn't kill off hair metal, GnR did.
No. Appetite dropped in '87 and hair metal survived another 5 years. As late as '92, bands like Slaughter and Ugly Kid Joe were in heavy rotation.
eta- I don't think any one band or person killed hair metal. I think it was mostly a combination of Nirvana, AiC, Pearl Jam, NIN, and RATM.
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 5/5/15 at 12:33 pm to northshorebamaman
Smells like teen spirit dropped in 91. 92, as you say, was the end of hair bands .... if you can't see a correlation then i can't help you.
SLTS moved rock into a different direction. No one gave a flying frick about hair bands after that.
SLTS moved rock into a different direction. No one gave a flying frick about hair bands after that.
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 5/5/15 at 12:35 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
The Scala & Kolacny Brothers cover of "Smells like teen spirit" is chilling.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 12:35 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
Smells like teen spirit dropped in 91. 92, as you say, was the end of hair bands .... if you can't see a correlation then i can't help you.
That's what I said. Did you mean to reply to me?
This post was edited on 5/5/15 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 5/5/15 at 1:02 pm to northshorebamaman
Ah, after your edit i see we're in agreement. 
Posted on 5/5/15 at 1:12 pm to northshorebamaman
I watched it. Couple of points:
Some of this is exceptionally well made and some of it looks like some Film School bullshite. I cant believe the doc used the same old tired cold war nuclear footage to show family life from the 50s/60s era. What a cliche.
The angry divorced kid is a familiar story, but Cobain's mother gets off pretty lightly. Reading other things, Cobain's mother had a healthy selfish streak in her and she alienated Cobain more than the doc really lets on.
That being said, I liked some of the visuals and I appreciated them including his journals. The writings show how sensitive and damaged the guy really was. However, watching the 89-90 interviews before they blew up, I was reminded how much of a smug prick he was as well. Once they made it and his voice "mattered" he pretty much became insufferable.
Courtney Love was just a better junkie then Cobain was. He tried to keep up with her, she left him in the dust and his emotional demons wouldn't let him get away after he dug the "hole" (pun intended) he killed himself in. She has been documented as an incredibly manipulative and conflicted person. She was the worst possible partner for him to end up with.
What is really sad is had he lived, he probably would have found a therapist (like so many from that time), gotten out of the heroin life (like so many as well) and been doing Nevermind 25th Year Anniversary special similar to this. I found it pretty ironic that deep in the throes of heroin addiction, Kurt was so competitive that they were fixated on making fun of Guns and Roses. I dont see how Kurt Cobain wold have continued on through the 90s to today as an "old rock star" out on tour.
or perhaps he would have just drifted away to his kid and his art
Finally it is pretty telling that the only band voice on the doc is Krist. He was obviously the closest to Cobain and he never publicly sided against Courtney in anything. So Grohl was interviewed and his words were cut. Perhaps the director could have shaved 10 mins of fantasy animation for one segment of Grohl's thoughts. he deserved at least that much. Seeing the old footage and knowing Grohl today, I cant imagine how hard it must have been for him to be happy in the band with Cobain.
I suspect the fantasy animation stuff was Frances Cobain's contribution to the doc.
These are the animators:
Animation Department
Hisko Hulsing ... animator
Stefan Nadelman ... animator
but I am guessing they were illustrating her concepts. I cant imagine her or Courtney Love allowing anyone access to her dad's art and making concept pieces off of it without some input.
Some of this is exceptionally well made and some of it looks like some Film School bullshite. I cant believe the doc used the same old tired cold war nuclear footage to show family life from the 50s/60s era. What a cliche.
The angry divorced kid is a familiar story, but Cobain's mother gets off pretty lightly. Reading other things, Cobain's mother had a healthy selfish streak in her and she alienated Cobain more than the doc really lets on.
That being said, I liked some of the visuals and I appreciated them including his journals. The writings show how sensitive and damaged the guy really was. However, watching the 89-90 interviews before they blew up, I was reminded how much of a smug prick he was as well. Once they made it and his voice "mattered" he pretty much became insufferable.
Courtney Love was just a better junkie then Cobain was. He tried to keep up with her, she left him in the dust and his emotional demons wouldn't let him get away after he dug the "hole" (pun intended) he killed himself in. She has been documented as an incredibly manipulative and conflicted person. She was the worst possible partner for him to end up with.
What is really sad is had he lived, he probably would have found a therapist (like so many from that time), gotten out of the heroin life (like so many as well) and been doing Nevermind 25th Year Anniversary special similar to this. I found it pretty ironic that deep in the throes of heroin addiction, Kurt was so competitive that they were fixated on making fun of Guns and Roses. I dont see how Kurt Cobain wold have continued on through the 90s to today as an "old rock star" out on tour.
or perhaps he would have just drifted away to his kid and his art
Finally it is pretty telling that the only band voice on the doc is Krist. He was obviously the closest to Cobain and he never publicly sided against Courtney in anything. So Grohl was interviewed and his words were cut. Perhaps the director could have shaved 10 mins of fantasy animation for one segment of Grohl's thoughts. he deserved at least that much. Seeing the old footage and knowing Grohl today, I cant imagine how hard it must have been for him to be happy in the band with Cobain.
I suspect the fantasy animation stuff was Frances Cobain's contribution to the doc.
These are the animators:
Animation Department
Hisko Hulsing ... animator
Stefan Nadelman ... animator
but I am guessing they were illustrating her concepts. I cant imagine her or Courtney Love allowing anyone access to her dad's art and making concept pieces off of it without some input.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 1:19 pm to JBeam
Posted on 5/5/15 at 1:23 pm to JBeam
Tori Amos also did an amazing cover of Smells Like... she does it really slow with just voice and piano. It's very beautiful the way she does it.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 1:24 pm to supatigah
quote:
Some of this is exceptionally well made and some of it looks like some Film School bullshite. I cant believe the doc used the same old tired cold war nuclear footage to show family life from the 50s/60s era. What a cliche.
This didn't bother me. I think it painted a proper picture of the background that Cobain grew up in. I'm sure a number of people can connect with the "Grew up in the burbs. Where mom and dad were together. But didn't really like one another anymore".
quote:Completely agree with this. She knew what buttons to push with him. She just doesn't strike me as the kind of person who feels sad about the downward spiral that Cobain went down. Maybe over time she's found a way to close the door on her relationship with him. But I do find it telling that Courtney had very little to do with this documentary. Frances is the one who was orchestrating this piece.
Courtney Love was just a better junkie then Cobain was. He tried to keep up with her, she left him in the dust and his emotional demons wouldn't let him get away after he dug the "hole" (pun intended) he killed himself in. She has been documented as an incredibly manipulative and conflicted person. She was the worst possible partner for him to end up with.
quote:So will we get to hear his piece in the DVD or something?
So Grohl was interviewed and his words were cut. Perhaps the director could have shaved 10 mins of fantasy animation for one segment of Grohl's thoughts. he deserved at least that much. Seeing the old footage and knowing Grohl today, I cant imagine how hard it must have been for him to be happy in the band with Cobain.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 1:30 pm to supatigah
I think they may have heard Tori Amos' version and put their own spin on it. Or maybe they just thought it would sound good slow too.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 1:44 pm to JBeam
quote:
I think it painted a proper picture of the background that Cobain grew up in. I'm sure a number of people can connect with the "Grew up in the burbs.
I'm not trying to be nit-picky, but he grew op in a small, isolated town. I only point that out because Aberdeen is a dark, grimy, shite hole of a town, and I've always felt that it comes through in his music.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 1:47 pm to northshorebamaman
You would know better than I would. Has Aberdeen always been a shite-hole or did it become that way slowly?
Posted on 5/5/15 at 1:53 pm to JBeam
quote:
You would know better than I would. Has Aberdeen always been a shite-hole or did it become that way slowly?
I've only been there a few times, but it's a redneck logging town in one of the rainiest (gloomiest) parts of WA. The closest city is Olympia which is pretty dark and depressing as well. I can't imagine it was ever that great.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 2:04 pm to JBeam
quote:
This didn't bother me. I think it painted a proper picture of the background that Cobain grew up in. I'm sure a number of people can connect with the "Grew up in the burbs. Where mom and dad were together. But didn't really like one another anymore".
actually, the cliched visuals were reflecting his mother and father's childhood, not Kurt Cobain's
Apparently being attracted to manipulative and dominating women runs in the Cobain genes looking at the spousal choices Kurt and his father made in their lives
Cobain's mother talked about how much her kids loved Aberdeen WA but Krist and Kurt both talked about how much they hated it.
quote:
Completely agree with this. She knew what buttons to push with him. She just doesn't strike me as the kind of person who feels sad about the downward spiral that Cobain went down. Maybe over time she's found a way to close the door on her relationship with him. But I do find it telling that Courtney had very little to do with this documentary. Frances is the one who was orchestrating this piece.
forgot to mention there was some revisionist history going on there with Love. She mentioned that she never cheated on him, that she "could have in London" but she also said that he OD'ed in Rome "the next day' when he thought she had cheated. As she was relaying this she was doing the look at the camera, look off to the right routine that body language experts often say could indicate lying. I dont think it was a coincidence that she "could have cheated but didnt" then he took 50 Roofies, he OD's, goes into a coma, gets out of it and kills himself a month later.
seeing the doc, some of the suicide note makes more sense:
quote:
To Boddah
Speaking from the tongue of an experienced simpleton who obviously would rather be an emasculated, infantile complain-ee. This note should be pretty easy to understand.
All the warnings from the punk rock 101 courses over the years, since my first introduction to the, shall we say, ethics involved with independence and the embracement of your community has proven to be very true. I haven't felt the excitement of listening to as well as creating music along with reading and writing for too many years now. I feel guilty beyond words about these things.
For example when we're back stage and the lights go out and the manic roar of the crowds begins., it doesn't affect me the way in which it did for Freddie Mercury, who seemed to love, relish in the the love and adoration from the crowd which is something I totally admire and envy. The fact is, I can't fool you, any one of you. It simply isn't fair to you or me. The worst crime I can think of would be to rip people off by faking it and pretending as if I'm having 100% fun. Sometimes I feel as if I should have a punch-in time clock before I walk out on stage. I've tried everything within my power to appreciate it (and I do,God, believe me I do, but it's not enough). I appreciate the fact that I and we have affected and entertained a lot of people. It must be one of those narcissists who only appreciate things when they're gone. I'm too sensitive. I need to be slightly numb in order to regain the enthusiasms I once had as a child.
On our last 3 tours, I've had a much better appreciation for all the people I've known personally, and as fans of our music, but I still can't get over the frustration, the guilt and empathy I have for everyone. There's good in all of us and I think I simply love people too much, so much that it makes me feel too fricking sad. The sad little, sensitive, unappreciative, Pisces, Jesus man. Why don't you just enjoy it? I don't know!
I have a goddess of a wife who sweats ambition and empathy and a daughter who reminds me too much of what i used to be, full of love and joy, kissing every person she meets because everyone is good and will do her no harm. And that terrifies me to the point to where I can barely function. I can't stand the thought of Frances becoming the miserable, self-destructive, death rocker that I've become.
I have it good, very good, and I'm grateful, but since the age of seven, I've become hateful towards all humans in general. Only because it seems so easy for people to get along that have empathy. Only because I love and feel sorry for people too much I guess.
Thank you all from the pit of my burning, nauseous stomach for your letters and concern during the past years. I'm too much of an erratic, moody baby! I don't have the passion anymore, and so remember, it's better to burn out than to fade away.
Peace, love, empathy.
Kurt Cobain
Frances and Courtney, I'll be at your alter.
Please keep going Courtney, for Frances.
For her life, which will be so much happier without me.
I LOVE YOU, I LOVE YOU!
LINK
I always thought that he killed himself but I never thought that was his real suicide note. I suspect, like a lot of others, that this was a draft of a letter to the fans that he he wrote saying he was leaving the band. I believe the "real suicide note" was only seen by Courtney Love and she destroyed it because he blamed her cheating on him as the reason for his suicide. She even says, he would have viewed her cheating on him as the "ultimate betrayal" which sounds like something from an actual suicide note. She has never allowed anyone to handle the original suicide note, the only copy was sent via a fax machine. I cant imagine the last words of such a sensitive and prolific writer were whining about losing his love for music and then some thrown in lines about being there for his wife and daughter in spirit or some shite.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 2:10 pm to supatigah
quote:
Apparently being attracted to manipulative and dominating women runs in the Cobain genes looking at the spousal choices Kurt and his father made in their lives
Did anyone else notice how much his mom and Courtney look alike?
Posted on 5/5/15 at 2:52 pm to JBeam
Grohl wasn't included because his interview came too close to the final cut of the film shown at Sundance. They simply didn't have the time to edit it into the film.
Posted on 5/5/15 at 4:01 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
Posted on 5/5/15 at 4:16 pm to GeorgeTheGreek
I watched it. It's a miracle their kid isn't a drug addict.
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