re: In tolkiens universe is it ever explained why Sauron doesn't notice the ring

Wait I didn't think Sauron could become whole again without the ring. He never achieves a physical form in lotr so how would he achieve that without the ring

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Wait I didn't think Sauron could become whole again without the ring. He never achieves a physical form in lotr so how would he achieve that without the ring

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I was always under the impression the Ring was the best way for him to become whole/regain a physical body, but not the only way (think Voldemort in Harry Potter always having a new a creative way to gain power, some are easier, some are harder). I think Sauron was trying to regain his physical form during the Hobbit timeline (as the Necromancer (?)) but was foiled by Gandolf and Co.

But I'm honestly not sure.

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Like wtf gandalf?! did You Just forget about the most powerful evil being ever? I mean he had to know who Sauron was and know that alot of his power came from the ring. Why did he have to do research?!

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I vaguely remember that being more played up in the movie, but I only read the books once and it was right before the movies came out . But I think he wanted to make sure it was the ONE ring. Because in M.E. there are quite a few magic rings, only a handful of which were created by Sauron. But since no one had seen the One ring for like 2 or 3 thousand years (even though Gandolf was alive then), and Isealdor (sp?) was the only person to ever have possession of it and document it, Gandolf might not have known offhand how to identify it (throwing it in the fire and stuff).

Because you can't just Wikipedia the lore of the Rings of Power in Middle-Earth. It was closely guarded knowledge among the wielders of the greater rings, and without careful study one could easily mistake the One Ring for a lesser assay, and viceversa. And there were MANY lesser rings.

Saruman was the authority on it all, but due to his suspicious behavior Gandalf couldn't trust him with his thoughts on Bilbo's ring and thus had to find out for himself.

Re Sauron becoming "whole", Gandalf not knowing about the Ring, and there being no Simarillion movies:
WARNING: Geek Alert ahead


The Hobbit movies are almost totally outside of Tolkien's carefully crafted world. That story itself is supposed to be a more whimsical children's tale; and a whole lot of the motivations and activities go against what Tolkien established. As such, Christopher Tolkien (JRR's son) has said, almost in so many words, "not no, but HELL no, Jackson won't make any more". He strongly disapproved of the movies, and won't sign any more rights over.

The Ring: few, even among the Wise, knew of the fate of the One Ring. Not even Gandalf. Only Elrond was there when Isildur kept it for himself, and only Saruman was deeply researching the Ring tech at all; he was initially more interested in making one for himself.
Celebrimbor made many rings before he mastered the craft and made the Rings of Power (9 for men, 7 for Dwarves, 3 for Elves, and the 1 ultimate that Sauron had). Gandalf assumed it was some trifling early attempt, as it was plain (the other main rings were all ornate). No one could conceive that Gollum had the Master Ring... it would be like some homeless vagrant having the Nuclear Launch Codes and device to launch, in his raggedy shopping cart.

Re Sauron, his appearance, and his ties to the Ring:


He was Morgoth's (the REAL big bad guy) 2nd in command, a very powerful spirit, capable of shapeshifting, and immensely knowledgeable. The Valar (read: Olympians, basically) took down Morgoth, Sauron hid out during the destruction, and after the dust settled, he was the strongest entity left East of the sea. He made himself appear beautiful and was very "helpful" in fixing the damage to the world... the Valar basically trashed Middle Earth during the conflict to take Morgoth down. If you look at maps from the Simarillion in the early ages, and compare them to maps of LOTR, it would be like a massive Olympian conflict on North America, resulting in the new West coast being somewhere near the Mississippi River.. everything else was destroyed and sunk into the ocean.
They rewarded the Men who fought on their side by giving them Numenor to live on, and invited the Elves to "come home" back to the West. But the Elves refused, saying they would stay behind in this broken world. Pride and all that.

Eventually Sauron gained the trust of the Elves, as they fixed things. He worked with Celebrimbor, the High King of the Elves that remained behind, who was making magic stuff to heal the land. Celebrimbor really knew his stuff, and by collaborating with Sauron he brought his game to another level. Sauron helped him make the 9 rings for Men and the 7 for the Dwarves, and Celebrimbor used the knowledge he gained to make the 3 Elven rings himself.
Sauron also used the shared knowledge to make the One Ring, but because Celebrimbor had made the 3 rings so powerful, he had to transfer a lot of his own power into it to have it surpass the 3. I guess he had to cheat to out-do what Celebrimbor had done.

Anyway, Sauron used the One Ring to conquer almost all of Middle Earth, and had kicked the Elves' asses badly. They were beaten and game was over.

The Valar, seeing that they broke the world the last time they went to war, decided against doing that again, and left the Elves to rot (afterall, they had turned down their offer of coming back anyway, so they needed to learn their lesson).

But the Men of Numenor, all this time, had been really powering up, to the point that they had surpassed the Elves and even Sauron, and were getting full of themselves to the point that some of them thought they could match the Valar in the West. They rolled back to Middle Earth in major force, and Sauron immediately recognized what was up. He surrendered without a fight, understanding that he would lose... and he perceived the arrogance of the Numenoreans, and decided he could play on that.

He went back as a hostage after leaving the Ring stashed, but being beautiful and gracious, and full of hidden knowledge and whatnot, he eventually became advisor to the King. Even without the Ring at this point, he was superior to Gandalf and Saruman, but not as powerful as he previously was. He stirred the Numenoreans to go West and challenge the Valar's authority (their one ban on Numenor was that they couldn't go to the West, they had to stay separate). Sauron figured he would cause their downfall, but had no idea how bad it would be. It was utterly destroyed, and he was caught in the middle of it. It took most of his remaining power to survive, and he was extremely weakened by this. Not destroyed, because he had a tie-in to the Ring, but without the Ring he was no longer any more than a shadow physically. He always had a psychic connection to the Ring, that allowed him some measure of strength, but he needed to wear it to really power up.
At this point, Sauron with the Ring would still be the most powerful entity in Middle Earth; without it but it still existing, he's able to stalemate Galadriel and Elrond with their rings on, and when the Ring is destroyed he's reduced to a shadow capable of giving you a bad mood.

Sauria is like the ultimate jobroni.

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I vaguely remember that being more played up in the movie, but I only read the books once and it was right before the movies came out . But I think he wanted to make sure it was the ONE ring. Because in M.E. there are quite a few magic rings, only a handful of which were created by Sauron. But since no one had seen the One ring for like 2 or 3 thousand years (even though Gandolf was alive then), and Isealdor (sp?) was the only person to ever have possession of it and document it, Gandolf might not have known offhand how to identify it (throwing it in the fire and stuff).

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My question is, if these folks have been around for thousands of years, how come there were seemingly no technologic advancements in all that time? I'm not saying Frodo needed an iPhone with iMaps on it, but at least a cannon or something. They were literally using the same weapons Isealdor used.

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My question is, if these folks have been around for thousands of years, how come there were seemingly no technologic advancements in all that time? I'm not saying Frodo needed an iPhone with iMaps on it, but at least a cannon or something. They were literally using the same weapons Isealdor used.

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Humans fought wars essentially the exact same way for 3500 years. Not sure what's unbelievable about this.

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My question is, if these folks have been around for thousands of years, how come there were seemingly no technologic advancements in all that time? I'm not saying Frodo needed an iPhone with iMaps on it, but at least a cannon or something. They were literally using the same weapons Isealdor used.

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This is not true. The Uruk Hai were a new development. A form of gunpowder was used at Helm's Deep. New forms of siege engines were used at Gondor. The Hobbits refined pipes and pipe weed. There are plenty of more examples in the silmarillion.

But there is something else to your point that has merit. It has to do with the various races of middle earth. The elves were content to stay as they were, preserving their ageless culture and race. The dwarves were mainly interested in improving mining techniques, jewelry, etc. The hobbits were mostly interested in developing food, gardening, drink, pipe weed.

The humans basically become the dominant race after the lord of rings when Sauron is defeated and the elves leave. They are the ones most interested in technological advancement in diverse ways. The third age has finished, the modern age of man has just begun at that point.

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Humans fought wars essentially the exact same way for 3500 years. Not sure what's unbelievable about this.

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That is so, so untrue.