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In tolkiens universe is it ever explained why Sauron doesn't notice the ring
Posted on 3/5/17 at 8:11 am
Posted on 3/5/17 at 8:11 am
When Bilbo and Gollum use it in the hobbit. Why does he not try to retrieve it until Lord. I'm sure I'm forgetting something really basic but this question just came to me and hoping you gents could enlighten me TIA 
This post was edited on 3/5/17 at 8:29 am
10
Posted on 3/5/17 at 8:20 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
In tolkiens universe is it ever explained why Sharon doesn't notice the ring
Not sure who you mean by Sharon? Do you mean Sauron?
Posted on 3/5/17 at 8:23 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
Sauron... He wasn't powerful enough yet to identify it or summon his Nazgul.
Posted on 3/5/17 at 8:26 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
Posted on 3/5/17 at 8:29 am to JohnnyBgood
sorry stupid autocorrect
Posted on 3/5/17 at 8:30 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
In the timeline, by the end of The Hobbit or shortly thereafter, he does start seeking out the ring if I remember correctly. It was hidden with Gollum under the Misty Mountains for centuries then basically goes from there to being hidden half way across the world in Bilbo's house for ~50 years or so. Gollum only actually wore it sparingly to sneak up on orcs that got lost in his caverns and Bilbo AFAIK didn't do much of anything with it other than keep it in his house.
During that time, Sauron presumably isn't strong enough to instantly sense when someone wears the ring and IIRC he isn't really sure it still exists or isn't totally lost, so he isn't intently focused on finding it both literally and in a ethereal sense. Plus he is pretty busy with regaining incorporeal strength or whatever, and with rebuilding his fortress and gathering bigass orc armies and stuff. But during that ~50 year timeframe he has the ringwraiths investigating what happened to the ring after he lost it. It just takes that long for them to follow the breadcrumb trail to Bilbo's house.
During that time, Sauron presumably isn't strong enough to instantly sense when someone wears the ring and IIRC he isn't really sure it still exists or isn't totally lost, so he isn't intently focused on finding it both literally and in a ethereal sense. Plus he is pretty busy with regaining incorporeal strength or whatever, and with rebuilding his fortress and gathering bigass orc armies and stuff. But during that ~50 year timeframe he has the ringwraiths investigating what happened to the ring after he lost it. It just takes that long for them to follow the breadcrumb trail to Bilbo's house.
Posted on 3/5/17 at 8:40 am to Huey Lewis
Ah thanks. I just recently did a rewatch of the fellowship and anytime Frodo wore it Sauron knew and a sense of the location so wanted to talk to someone who knew more than me about why that just started
This post was edited on 3/5/17 at 8:45 am
Posted on 3/5/17 at 8:58 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
The movies are good and I enjoy watching them, but they are better considered as enjoyable fantasy movies based on LOTR, rather than as actual movies of the books. In the books, the Nazgul serve as Sauron's eyes and ears when searching for the Ring, and do seem to have a limited ability to sense its location because they feel its call. The only time Sauron himself is able to sense its location is at the very end when Frodo formally claims the Ring for himself inside Mount Doom (the implication being that although Gollum, Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam had all carried the Ring for various periods of time, none of them to that point had claimed to be the master of its power).
ETA that Decisions is correct below and Sauron was also able to sense Frodo on the Hill of Seeing, but only because the magic of the Hill itself made him visible.
Second edit to add that Sauron's blindness to the whereabouts of the Ring is a big driver of the plot in the books. As a being who only understood power, Sauron was incapable of imagining that the Free Peoples would do anything with the Ring other than claim and try to use it against him if they were to find it. The thought that they might try to destroy it never entered into his mind. He assumed they would take the Ring to Gondor, the strongest city in the West, and so his initial attack fell there in order to preempt that move. Once the Witch King had been defeated at the Battle of the Pellenor Fields and the immediate threat to Gondor eliminated, Aragorn and Gandalf decided to march on the Morannon because they believed that's what Sauron would expect someone who had claimed the Ring to do, and they would therefore receive his full attention, providing some cover for Frodo and Sam.
ETA that Decisions is correct below and Sauron was also able to sense Frodo on the Hill of Seeing, but only because the magic of the Hill itself made him visible.
Second edit to add that Sauron's blindness to the whereabouts of the Ring is a big driver of the plot in the books. As a being who only understood power, Sauron was incapable of imagining that the Free Peoples would do anything with the Ring other than claim and try to use it against him if they were to find it. The thought that they might try to destroy it never entered into his mind. He assumed they would take the Ring to Gondor, the strongest city in the West, and so his initial attack fell there in order to preempt that move. Once the Witch King had been defeated at the Battle of the Pellenor Fields and the immediate threat to Gondor eliminated, Aragorn and Gandalf decided to march on the Morannon because they believed that's what Sauron would expect someone who had claimed the Ring to do, and they would therefore receive his full attention, providing some cover for Frodo and Sam.
This post was edited on 3/5/17 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 3/5/17 at 8:58 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
Frodo actually wore the Ring on the Hill of Seeing as well (though unwittingly). This was the magical equivalent of firing off a flare gun to Sauron, as being able to see great distances also made him (momentarily) detectable at great distances as well.
After this you can pretty well say that Sauron ramped up his efforts to find the Ring even moreso.
After this you can pretty well say that Sauron ramped up his efforts to find the Ring even moreso.
Posted on 3/5/17 at 11:35 am to Hawgnsincebirth55
Much weaker.
Posted on 3/5/17 at 12:30 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
In the books, while Sauron and the Nazgul can sense the presence of the ring, wearing it doesn't show them where you are like in the movie. Sam uses the ring a few times in Mordor
Posted on 3/5/17 at 1:41 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
Why does he not try to retrieve it until Lord
Wasnt strong enough yet.
Posted on 3/5/17 at 9:25 pm to swagsurfin7
I was always under the impression that since Sauron had to sacrifice part of his very essence to create the one ring that each time someone used it, he drew power from them thus strengthening himself.
Posted on 3/5/17 at 10:35 pm to AshLSU
Not sure how the Hobbit movies address it; I think they just didn't bother, to be honest. Mindless fun was all they wanted.
I think the LOTR movies did, a little, by following what was suggested in the books. The opening made the case clearly.
As for the books- Hobbit was written first, and originally not tied into the bigger mythology. Later, with LOTR, it is suggested that the Ring had fallen out of sight and reach of Sauron. He fell, Isildur took the Ring, and it was lost in the Anduin river when he was ambushed. Sauron's spirit called for malicious creatures to seek it out (since he wasn't "dead", it was clearly still around), leading Smeagol/Gollum to find it; but he was petty, and used it for small crimes. He eventually retreated under the Misty Mountain ranges, far out of sight, despite Sauron's call. Or perhaps because of the call; no one would willingly give the Ring up, and since Smeagol was a Hobbit, he was hard to dominate, so he hid with it instead, and didn't use it much once he was in the dark. Had Bilbo never found it, it likely would have remained there while Sauron built back up without it, and he only would have found it after destroying most of Middle Earth (Rivendell and Lorien would have stood until he found it, but the rest were doomed). Eventually the goblins would have led him to Gollum, and that would be the end of any resistance.
Only potential option of Sauron not winning was that Saruman was hunting the Ring too, and had a lead on the original location. But he was up shite creek, since Smeagol moved it. Sauron was aware that Saruman was gunning for it himself, so while Saruman could stand down the Nazgul, Sauron was probably going to use everything available- the Dragon, the Balrog, the Nazgul, and eventually himself- to take Saruman out. With Saruman out of the game, and the Ring unavailable to others, Sauron could isolate the 3 Rings into little enclaves, scorch the rest, and find it at his leisure.
This almost worked, had it not been for Bilbo.
I think the LOTR movies did, a little, by following what was suggested in the books. The opening made the case clearly.
As for the books- Hobbit was written first, and originally not tied into the bigger mythology. Later, with LOTR, it is suggested that the Ring had fallen out of sight and reach of Sauron. He fell, Isildur took the Ring, and it was lost in the Anduin river when he was ambushed. Sauron's spirit called for malicious creatures to seek it out (since he wasn't "dead", it was clearly still around), leading Smeagol/Gollum to find it; but he was petty, and used it for small crimes. He eventually retreated under the Misty Mountain ranges, far out of sight, despite Sauron's call. Or perhaps because of the call; no one would willingly give the Ring up, and since Smeagol was a Hobbit, he was hard to dominate, so he hid with it instead, and didn't use it much once he was in the dark. Had Bilbo never found it, it likely would have remained there while Sauron built back up without it, and he only would have found it after destroying most of Middle Earth (Rivendell and Lorien would have stood until he found it, but the rest were doomed). Eventually the goblins would have led him to Gollum, and that would be the end of any resistance.
Only potential option of Sauron not winning was that Saruman was hunting the Ring too, and had a lead on the original location. But he was up shite creek, since Smeagol moved it. Sauron was aware that Saruman was gunning for it himself, so while Saruman could stand down the Nazgul, Sauron was probably going to use everything available- the Dragon, the Balrog, the Nazgul, and eventually himself- to take Saruman out. With Saruman out of the game, and the Ring unavailable to others, Sauron could isolate the 3 Rings into little enclaves, scorch the rest, and find it at his leisure.
This almost worked, had it not been for Bilbo.
Posted on 3/5/17 at 11:41 pm to Hawgnsincebirth55
quote:
When Bilbo and Gollum use it in the hobbit. Why does he not try to retrieve it until Lord. I'm sure I'm forgetting something really basic but this question just came to me and hoping you gents could enlighten me TIA
he hadnt fully regained his powers, he was the Necromancer in the Hobbit series.
Posted on 3/5/17 at 11:51 pm to udtiger
I hear the Similarian couldn't be made into a movie. Never read it. Why is that?
Posted on 3/6/17 at 12:00 am to JabarkusRussell
quote:
I hear the Similarian couldn't be made into a movie. Never read it. Why is that?
It would have to be a bunch of movies or a long series. For example, the LOTR saga is mentioned in the book but is only a short segment of the many events, characters, and locations over the course of a long history, from the creation of the world to ages later. There are certainly many stories in it that could be chosen to make a movie though.
Posted on 3/6/17 at 12:14 am to lagallifrey
Jackson isn't shy about making trilogies. Has he ever commented on making it?
Posted on 3/6/17 at 12:36 am to JabarkusRussell
The Simirellion is a history book/Bible of Middle Earth. It even begins with the whole in the beginning trope. The events listed take place over several thousand years
As others have said, there are events that could. R turned into a movie but you can't make the whole thing.
I could easily see standalone movies for The sinking if Numenor, The Fall of Gondolin, Recovering the Simirils(think of Aragon and Arewen went on the journey frodo did), and The Children of Turin.
As others have said, there are events that could. R turned into a movie but you can't make the whole thing.
I could easily see standalone movies for The sinking if Numenor, The Fall of Gondolin, Recovering the Simirils(think of Aragon and Arewen went on the journey frodo did), and The Children of Turin.
Posted on 3/6/17 at 1:01 am to athenslife101
You mean children of Hurin? Yeah I liked it but that would be one depressing movie.
Beren and Luthien book got delayed apparently, until the summer. Looking forward to that.
Beren and Luthien book got delayed apparently, until the summer. Looking forward to that.
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